Trialing no Creon.......scared

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Toy_Story_PupBuzz
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Posts: 20
Country: Australia
Pet name: Buzz

Re: Trialing no Creon.......scared

Post by Toy_Story_PupBuzz » 19 Mar 2019, 20:35

jilbert57 wrote: 19 Mar 2019, 09:07 Hi Danielle: I sent you an email yesterday for a link to the tylan dosing. I believe according to the weight (about 41 lbs) it says 1/8 teaspoon twice a day but recheck that. I can resend the link. Please let me know results from his labs. Did you happen to ask for the test specific to pancreatic lipase, the cPl?

Unfortunately a lot of vets are unfamiliar with EPI so quickly wing it with a patient. If you think your vet would be open to learning you could give him the link to EPI4Dogs or print out some info.

So has Buzz been vomiting his food all day or pileobile or combo?
Hi Jill,

I had a look at that, thank you for sending it through!! That was the original dose he was on from when he was diagnosed but they bumped him up to 1/4 teaspoon twice a day because he was just having really runny stools. Do you think too much Tylan can affect aswell?

When I ask for bloods to be done and I said I wanted the cPI to be tested but from what you've said it doesn't look like they are testing it :( The vet also mentioned when I went back in that they had called someone? (don't remember who) to see exactly which tests were needed :( and that they were on top of it. I'm really considering finding another vet, hopefully one that has a bit more insight, but even to get a second opinion if all his bloods come back normal.

He vomited twice on each day, once was fully formed food and then the other was the yellow mucousy bile.
Danielle and Buzz from Australia.
Buzz was diagnosed with EPI when he was 2.9 years old after dropping 6kgs in what seemed like overnight.
His TLI score came back at 2.1 and his B12 levels were 124.
Current medication 7 creon tablets morning and night, 1/4 tsp Tylan powder morning and night, 1/2 Maxolon morning and night, Vitamin B12 injection once a month. Current weight is 19.9kg

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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
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State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Trialing no Creon.......scared

Post by Madelon » 19 Mar 2019, 21:13

Hi again. I'm not sure if I did the math correctly but 4 grams is supposed to be equal to 1 teaspoon. With powder enzymes we recommend 1teaspoon per cup of food/slightly less maybe 3/4teaspoon if using wet food. So at 100grams you should get approximately 23 teaspoons. If you feed 1 cup of food am and 1 cup of food pm then you would use 1teaspoon am and 1teaspoon pm - so you should get around 12 1/2 days out of 100grams - I think. Did you double check the price with Suj? That sounds really high for only 100grams - might want to double check with Suj on that.

He probably went off of his dry food because he wasn't feeling good. Hopefully he'll go back to that once he's feeling better.

When Doc throws up just yellow bile periodically, I don't worry about it because it doesn't happen often and it's because there was too much bile in his system. As for the bad stools - yes he's better now - it took a LONG time to find the right food because he has so many sensitivities but we finally found one that seems to be working for him.

Keep us posted and give your gorgeous boys a kiss from me and a hug for yourself :)
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Trialing no Creon.......scared

Post by jilbert57 » 20 Mar 2019, 09:08

I am not sure if a lot of the symptoms Buzz is having is due to too much Creon. I always try to lower a drug to the smallest dose that gives the same result. I would give a few days on Creon then go to the lower dose of tylan recommended on the chart for Buzz's weight. On the other hand you will be switching to powdered enzymes soon and might start the lower dose of Tylan then.
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

Barb
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Posts: 918
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Trialing no Creon.......scared

Post by Barb » 21 Mar 2019, 13:08

Hi Danielle,

Hang in there. You are doing great. You are dealing with so many things at once, plus the learning curve. It's all new. As Buzz stabilizes, it will get more manageable.

Many vets do not have a lot of experience with EPI. Ours told us right from the beginning that he had only had 1 case in 27 years and it was an easy one. (pup responded right away to enzymes, food, etc.) However, he also read everything I gave him from the website and when he took on another vet, she always asks for information from the Forum and reads whatever I give her. Both of them have a good knowledge base and are willing to learn. So you have to trust your gut on this. If you feel like your vets do not have enough basic knowledge and/or are not going in the right direction for Buzz, you have every right to find someone who is a better fit for you and Buzz. If it is a matter of closing the learning gap and catching up with the research, and they are willing to do that in a timely manner for Buzz, you can choose to give them more time. Follow your intuition. It is usually right....

Barb

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Riley's Mom
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Country: United States
State: Virginia

Re: Trialing no Creon.......scared

Post by Riley's Mom » 22 Mar 2019, 09:17

How's it going? Any updates?
Elisabeth

Riley is a 10 year old Labradoodle. She was diagnosed with EPI in 2014.
She currently eats Taste of the Wild, I cup in the morning, 2 cups in the evening, each meal with 1 Wonderlabs B12 sprinkled over her dinner. Enzymes are EnzymeDiane, 1 tsp per cup of food, mixed in home made bone broth. No other supplements or meds at this time.
Riley currently weighs about 44 pounds, which is pretty heavy for her.

Ruby
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Posts: 99
Country: United States
State: Florida

Re: Trialing no Creon.......scared

Post by Ruby » 25 Mar 2019, 01:49

Hi, seems like a lot has been going on with you, your dog and your vet. I would suggest in keeping things simple. I have used and been using Creon 10,000 (2) at Each meal. Just before my dog eats. I just place them in my hand with a little water and my dog licks them up. Then I also give her B12 with intrinsic factor you can order from Wonderlab. I give her 1 pill at each meal (that would be twice a day). I just place it in with her food and she eats it up. No shots. You might want to try this for a week or so and see how your dog does. It seems like there have been too many things going on and your dogs stomach is upset.

It took me awhile to figure things out for my dog so don't give up. I do things slow and simple. One thing I learned through this website keep it slow and easy. Do these two things 1st then when things are going better you can add one thing at a time and watch for any results good or bad. Don't do too much at one time. Hope this helps to get things on a better track for you and your precious dog.
:)

Simple slow and easy.

Barb
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Posts: 918
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Trialing no Creon.......scared

Post by Barb » 25 Mar 2019, 10:18

How is everything going?

Barb

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Toy_Story_PupBuzz
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Posts: 20
Country: Australia
Pet name: Buzz

Re: Trialing no Creon.......scared

Post by Toy_Story_PupBuzz » 28 Mar 2019, 05:38

Barb wrote: 21 Mar 2019, 13:08 Hi Danielle,

Hang in there. You are doing great. You are dealing with so many things at once, plus the learning curve. It's all new. As Buzz stabilizes, it will get more manageable.

Many vets do not have a lot of experience with EPI. Ours told us right from the beginning that he had only had 1 case in 27 years and it was an easy one. (pup responded right away to enzymes, food, etc.) However, he also read everything I gave him from the website and when he took on another vet, she always asks for information from the Forum and reads whatever I give her. Both of them have a good knowledge base and are willing to learn. So you have to trust your gut on this. If you feel like your vets do not have enough basic knowledge and/or are not going in the right direction for Buzz, you have every right to find someone who is a better fit for you and Buzz. If it is a matter of closing the learning gap and catching up with the research, and they are willing to do that in a timely manner for Buzz, you can choose to give them more time. Follow your intuition. It is usually right....

Barb
It's so hard Barb as we were stable for 4 years, and it's even harder when your husband isn't completely on board and the cost keeps going up :( That's great to hear that your vet took what you said on board and wanted to learn more about EPI. I don't feel the same with my vets unfortunately. I have been speaking with Olesia and Madelon and have had some great recommendations so am following those up as we speak.
Danielle and Buzz from Australia.
Buzz was diagnosed with EPI when he was 2.9 years old after dropping 6kgs in what seemed like overnight.
His TLI score came back at 2.1 and his B12 levels were 124.
Current medication 7 creon tablets morning and night, 1/4 tsp Tylan powder morning and night, 1/2 Maxolon morning and night, Vitamin B12 injection once a month. Current weight is 19.9kg

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Toy_Story_PupBuzz
Member
Posts: 20
Country: Australia
Pet name: Buzz

Re: Trialing no Creon.......scared

Post by Toy_Story_PupBuzz » 28 Mar 2019, 05:39

Ruby wrote: 25 Mar 2019, 01:49 Hi, seems like a lot has been going on with you, your dog and your vet. I would suggest in keeping things simple. I have used and been using Creon 10,000 (2) at Each meal. Just before my dog eats. I just place them in my hand with a little water and my dog licks them up. Then I also give her B12 with intrinsic factor you can order from Wonderlab. I give her 1 pill at each meal (that would be twice a day). I just place it in with her food and she eats it up. No shots. You might want to try this for a week or so and see how your dog does. It seems like there have been too many things going on and your dogs stomach is upset.

It took me awhile to figure things out for my dog so don't give up. I do things slow and simple. One thing I learned through this website keep it slow and easy. Do these two things 1st then when things are going better you can add one thing at a time and watch for any results good or bad. Don't do too much at one time. Hope this helps to get things on a better track for you and your precious dog.
:)

Simple slow and easy.
Thanks heaps Ruby!!
Danielle and Buzz from Australia.
Buzz was diagnosed with EPI when he was 2.9 years old after dropping 6kgs in what seemed like overnight.
His TLI score came back at 2.1 and his B12 levels were 124.
Current medication 7 creon tablets morning and night, 1/4 tsp Tylan powder morning and night, 1/2 Maxolon morning and night, Vitamin B12 injection once a month. Current weight is 19.9kg

User avatar
Toy_Story_PupBuzz
Member
Posts: 20
Country: Australia
Pet name: Buzz

Re: Trialing no Creon.......scared

Post by Toy_Story_PupBuzz » 28 Mar 2019, 05:54

Thanks so much for all the info so far. Sorry I haven't given an update lately, I have been flat out following up things on this end regarding food, medication and vets.
Buzz is doing a lot better than he was. I have been in contact with Olesia and she has been so helpful. I have had some recommendations of vets local to us in Victoria Australia so am following those up at the moment and trying to get an appointment.
We have received our powdered enzymes so are in the process of trying that and are waiting for our B12 capsules to arrive so we can stop the injections and give the right B12. With the help of Olesia, Madelon and Jill we have gone from 7 25,000 creon capsules morning and night to 1 10,000 capsule morning and night. The vet wanted to bump Buzz up to 10 25,000 creon morning and night :O which I haven't. We have continued with the 1 10,000 capsule for the past week and Buzz has seemed pretty stable. We are having to keep up with the 1/2 tablet cerenia or Buzz throws up. The vet has also mentioned Buzz has ulceration of the gut but is thinking it is more wide spread. We are looking into Slippery elm and it's been noted that Buzz has small distal proximal disease so we are currently in the process of looking at a special food for him.
Everything feels like a blur and it's been really hard because my husband is becoming less and less supportive of the money we are spending out on Buzz :( it kills me because Buzz is my baby and to have my husband question me as to why we keep spending oout this money really hurts.
Danielle and Buzz from Australia.
Buzz was diagnosed with EPI when he was 2.9 years old after dropping 6kgs in what seemed like overnight.
His TLI score came back at 2.1 and his B12 levels were 124.
Current medication 7 creon tablets morning and night, 1/4 tsp Tylan powder morning and night, 1/2 Maxolon morning and night, Vitamin B12 injection once a month. Current weight is 19.9kg

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