Sassy says HI and Thank You!!!

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
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Re: Sassy says HI and Thank You!!!

Post by Madelon » 02 Apr 2019, 18:54

Can you post some more pictures of the poops as they occur? It looks like you may be dealing with a bit of SID still. I just went back through your posts and noted a few things: 1) are you still giving pumpkin? if so, I would take that out for now; 2) did you get a B12 shot? I saw where you ordered the WonderLabs pills which is great - the poop might still be off because the B12 is low; 3) what food are you feeding?

We do recommend giving the proper dose and preparation of enzymes, B12 and food a week or two to see if the gut flora corrects itself before trying antibiotics or Slippery Elm powder.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

RichardB
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Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Sassy
My name: Richard

Re: Sassy says HI and Thank You!!!

Post by RichardB » 03 Apr 2019, 01:18

I am still giving 1 heaping tablespoon of pumpkin with each meal. No B12 shot, but she's been getting a total of 5 capsules of Wonderlabs B12 per day, 2 in the morning, 1 in the afternoon and two at night, all mixed in with her food. I'm feeding her Costco Nature's Domain Salmon and Sweet Potato. 2 cups, 3 times a day with two teaspoons on Diane's enzymes with each meal dissolved in warm water, about 90-100 degrees F. and waiting about 20 minutes after it's mixed in with her food to serve it to her. No treats, but I'm sure she still eats some of her poop even though I try to clean it up each time. I just can't monitor her that closely all the time. I'm also giving her 1/2 teaspoon of slippery elm in the morning and at night, together with about 1 tablespoon of salmon oil with each meal. This Thursday will be one week of full treatments, she had one meal with enzyme last Wednesday. I'll send another pic of her poop tomorrow morning.

Thanks for your help,
Richard

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Miss Maddie Moo
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Re: Sassy says HI and Thank You!!!

Post by Miss Maddie Moo » 03 Apr 2019, 04:50

Hi Richard

As my earlier post eluded to try and keep things simple my Gal didn't do well with Salmon oil we just kept it simple food enzymes and B12 ( by the way you are giving alot of b12 most of us did 2 then down to 1 )
Maddie DX April 2011 along with low B12 she was feed with a low fibre food below 3% , fat was not restricted ( she wasnt good on pea based foods ) She initially had a course of B12 shots weekly over a period of 6 months and then we used the B12 pills from Chemeyes in the UK . We used Panzym and slowly had to increase the dose as she aged when she was first DX she was 23kg but she gained weight quickly and got back to 33 kg .
Maddie gained her angel wings in Jan 2018 at the age of 10 to a condition unrelated to EPI.
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Riley's Mom
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Re: Sassy says HI and Thank You!!!

Post by Riley's Mom » 03 Apr 2019, 08:43

RIchard
I too would stop the pumpkin and salmon oil for now. Not that they aren't good things, but in the beginning it is best to get things stable, then work on the add ins one at a time so if there is a problem you know which thing caused it. Some dogs do well with the oil, some do not....
I agree it might be a bit much B12 as well. 2 per day might just do the trick for you.
You're doing great, keep it up.
Elisabeth

Riley is a 10 year old Labradoodle. She was diagnosed with EPI in 2014.
She currently eats Taste of the Wild, I cup in the morning, 2 cups in the evening, each meal with 1 Wonderlabs B12 sprinkled over her dinner. Enzymes are EnzymeDiane, 1 tsp per cup of food, mixed in home made bone broth. No other supplements or meds at this time.
Riley currently weighs about 44 pounds, which is pretty heavy for her.

RichardB
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Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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Pet name: Sassy
My name: Richard

Re: Sassy says HI and Thank You!!!

Post by RichardB » 03 Apr 2019, 11:38

OK All, as of this morning I didn't add pumpkin or salmon oil to her food. I did 2 cups of food as usual, 2 teaspoons of enzyme, 1/2 teaspoon slippery elm and 2 capsules B12. The reason I overloaded on the B12 is because she did not get the shot, was low on her B12 test. According to Wonderlabs they recommend 2 capsules per day for dogs over 51 lbs. After today I'll start weening her down to 2 capsules per day.

Attached is her last stool from just minutes ago. Below it is one from earlier this morning.
Latest Poop
Latest Poop
IMG_1213.JPG (4.96 MiB) Viewed 4228 times
One from earlier today.
One from earlier today.
IMG_1211.JPG (3.64 MiB) Viewed 4228 times

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jilbert57
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Re: Sassy says HI and Thank You!!!

Post by jilbert57 » 03 Apr 2019, 12:53

Those poops are looking a lot better! It always seems to help sometimes to take a step back to basics. Hope they keep improving.
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Riley's Mom
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Re: Sassy says HI and Thank You!!!

Post by Riley's Mom » 03 Apr 2019, 15:50

Also, just in case you don't know this (I didn't at the beginning until I learned WAY more about poop that I ever thought possible )
The poop you saw this morning was from yesterday sometime. Every dog has their own "transit time". Meaning, the poop you see today is from what she ate previously......the way to figure out your dog's particular transit time is to add a bit of grated carrot to one of her meals, mark the time. Carrot won't be digested, so you look for when you see the carrot come out the other end. Then you know when you look at a poop which meal it is connected to.
And her poops are looking pretty good!
I know we are throwing a lot of info at you, I promise it'll all settle in and begin to make sense and become routine. I swear!
Elisabeth

Riley is a 10 year old Labradoodle. She was diagnosed with EPI in 2014.
She currently eats Taste of the Wild, I cup in the morning, 2 cups in the evening, each meal with 1 Wonderlabs B12 sprinkled over her dinner. Enzymes are EnzymeDiane, 1 tsp per cup of food, mixed in home made bone broth. No other supplements or meds at this time.
Riley currently weighs about 44 pounds, which is pretty heavy for her.

RichardB
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Posts: 55
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Sassy
My name: Richard

Re: Sassy says HI and Thank You!!!

Post by RichardB » 03 Apr 2019, 16:25

I understand, and Thank You!!! The darker poop probably sat in her tummy (or where ever it sits) over night. I believe it came out around 6:30 this morning when my wife let them out and a couple hours before I fed her and the next lighter brown came out. It may have been darker because of the time before I took the pic. The lighter brown was within 5 minutes of coming out.

I have 2 babies here and I'm happy to say Buddy appears to be adjusting to the new feeding schedule now also. I've raised his feedings from 1 cup 3 times a day to 3 1/3 cups and he's finishing it now. He wasn't finishing a cup before. They were free fed before, so this is especially a challenge and change for him. You see, he's not starving like Sassy is, so it was harder on him to adjust to an eating schedule.

I also have to wonder what difference it makes in her poops those times when she eats her poop? I try to stay on top of it, but sometimes "poop" happens? I can somewhat control what she eats in the house, other than the occasional tissue or napkin. She has been known to grab a piece of bread when someone turned their head too! For the most part, 99.99% they both are good. Of course they are, they're my babies!

Thanks Again,
Richard

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Jean
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Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Sassy says HI and Thank You!!!

Post by Jean » 03 Apr 2019, 17:22

any pics of Sassy
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
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Re: Sassy says HI and Thank You!!!

Post by Madelon » 03 Apr 2019, 20:37

First - are you giving 4 capsules of B12 pills a day? If so that is way too much. I would recommend starting with two capsules a day if the B12 was really low BUT separate and give 1 pill in the am and 1 pill in the pm. I would retest the B12 after a month and if it's high then you could try reducing to 1 pill a day.

Okay - the poops - those pics are pretty good especially the darker one. In order to find your dog's transit time, chop some carrot up and put it in the food - then start watching for the carrot to come out in the poop - and it may be in more than one poop. My dog has a transit time of 24-48 hours. This will help you know if the poop you are looking at is from the change you made or not - be sure to write on your log when you put the carrot in the food and when you see it come out.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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