Sassy says HI and Thank You!!!

[RichardB]

I know Elisabeth, I think the worst part is feeling that you won't be able to spoil them like you expected to with treats. It is depressing, but not overwhelming. I read about the treats on the site. Can I give a treat right after she eats while she has enzyme in her?

[Riley's Mom]

That is the best time to give them. But I would suggest to wait until things are stable, meaning good poops and no stomach rumbling and gas, for a couple of months. Then you can try treats. There are some ways to dehydrate treats with enzymes in them there is a tab about treats. Or you can give as you said, right after an enzymed meal when the enzymes are still around to help.
Once Sassy is stable, you might be able to get away with the occasional treat. Some people can not stray from the routine at all without inviting trouble, but some dogs tolerate a little bit from time to time. But don't try this yet!
I'm lucky, Riley can have a tiny bit of cheese or meat without causing trouble. But I waited a LONG time before I tried it.

[RichardB]

WoW!!! LOOKS LIKE POOP!!! Less than 2 days since first enzyme, about 40 hours later to be more exact!!! It was a lot, but her tummy felt bloated last night so I didn't give another feeding which should have been OK since she already had 6 cups in her. Last nights 8 pm stool was more loose than the previous 3. Gave slippery elm yesterday at the last feeding which was 4 pm and this morning.

These 2 were free fed their whole lives before 2 days ago. I didn't know how much they ate per day, only that one bag would last a little over 2 weeks. So Buddy hasn't finished the last 3 meals he's had. So yesterday he ate a little less than 3 cups. He's a healthy 68 lbs as of yesterday on my scale. I would expect him and Sassy to normally eat about 4 cups each, but they're house dogs so I wouldn't be surprised if they need less than recommended. They do run around the back yard and chase each other for most of their exercise, which is probably enough for them. I did feed Sassy 6 cups yesterday and will target that amount today. Yesterday I targeted meals every 4 hours expecting to give 4 feedings of 2 cups each to Sassy, 1 cup each to Buddy. Since I only fed her 3 times I'll space today's feeding at 5 hours between and 3 feedings.

Anyway, this is the most healthy poop I've seen in about a month. Just checked again and there was a smaller amount of about 4 identifiable turds!

Hope she can keep this up during the day.

I don't think I mentioned it before, but I retired 6 months ago and it's a good thing I did. So, I have for the most part all the time in the world to devote to them. I did have to fly to the east coast for 10 days to take care of my Mom and her animals when Sassy had loose stools for about a week and really couldn't address the problem until I got back. My wife helps where she can, but doesn't really know or understand animals that much. She knows how I feel about them though since I've had at least a dog most of my life. Along with Cats, Rats, no Elephants, no unicorns, (remember that song?) racoon, rabbits, squirrel, rooster, various birds including the cockatiel and cockatoo I have now. These were all house pets at one time or another, brought the rooster in during the night to avoid frost bite in the winter in N.J. My neighbor in N.J. actually made national news about 40 years ago when two elephants were stolen from a traveling circus. Turns out his friend sold the elephants to the circus and found they were being mistreated. In the dead of the night they loaded the elephants in a trailer and brought them to my neighbors house where they hid them for awhile until they could get it straightened out. Believe it or not, we actually lived in the woods in N.J. on a few acres that were able to hide elephants. There was nothing but woods behind us for about a mile.

Enough stories, that's what you get when you let a not that old retired guy in!

Yeah!!! Sassy!!!

[RichardB]

Sassy never had tummy gurgles or gas that I'm aware of. I'm hoping that means she never developed SID. She was treated with Metronidazole for 7 days that ended about 4 days before I started the enzymes. The poop never changed over those 7 days which led the Vet to mention EPI. Upon research and this site I determined that was probably it and ordered the "stuff" to combat it that appears to be working today. So far so Good!!! If there was SID, maybe the Metron got it, don't know. I don't know as a fact that she doesn't have SID now, I just know she appears to be getting better as far as her poops go and she's pretty spunky now too!

Thanks,
Richard

[Riley's Mom]

RIchard
Most dogs with EPI have SID at least at the beginning, but the current recommendation is to get the food right, get the enzymes on board and give it a couple of weeks to see if the gut can right itself. And the Slippery Elm also helps with combating it. So good for you, maybe she is one of the ones that doesn't battle it all the time.

[Madelon]

Hi and welcome to you and your Sassy - love the way you worded your posts - so cute!! There are for cornerstones to effectively managing EPI: 1 - Enzymes (most of us get our enzymes from EnzymeDiane www.enzymediane.com - her enzymes are about 1/3 of the cost of the vet enzymes - we recommend 1 level tsp per cup of kibble - mix in luke warm water, then mix in kibble, incubate for 20-30 minutes before serving); 2 - B12 (most EPI dogs have low B12 at diagnoses or will develop it - EPI dogs need their B12 600+ and supplementing is for life; after you follow the recommended protocol most of us use WonderLabs Pet Factor B12 pills); 3 - Antibiotics (if your pup is dealing with SID we recommend 45 days of Tylan - however - when first diagnosed we recommend using the correct dose of enzymes, B12 and food to see if the gut flora restores on its own); 4 - Food (this can be difficult as every EPI dog is different - but we recommend grain free, 4% fiber or less, avoid peas and chicken if possible - feed 150% of the food for the weight of the dog your should be but in smaller more frequent meals).

EPI can be overwhelming in the beginning but we are all here to help you

[RichardB]

Thank You Madelon!

I think we're there!!! If you saw her poops this morning and her doing it, you wouldn't know there was a problem. What I am learning, even this morning is: her brother prefers the chicken and rice I was feeding them before trying to ween him off that and onto the salmon and sweet potato. Looks like I'll feed them different foods. Sassy still has a ravenous appetite!!! She's eating 6 cups and would eat more if I gave it to her. Her birth brother who has always weighed more is only eating 3 cups, but I am trying to give him heaping cups. He still doesn't finish his cup most feedings. They both are trying to adapt from free feeding. So yes, I'm feeding them 3 times a day, 2 cups for her and 1 cup for him. Just weighed her and she's gained a pound. Nothing but success so far and it's all because of YOU!!! You and all the others that have contributed to the info on this site. I'm doing everything you told me to do,,,,Mom!!! I'm also giving the slippery elm and salmon oil. I am giving 2 capsules of the WonderLabs B12 in the morning and evening feed, with 1 capsule at the lunch meal. WonderLabs recommends 2 capsules per day for her weight. I could probably cut back to 2 capsules a day, but I'll keep this up for a while to make sure she gets her B12 built up.

Thank You for all your help,
Richard

[Jean]

ok

what is her ideal weight and what is she now

the recommendation, is to feed 150% of the recommended amount on the bag over, say 3 meals until they reach their ideal weight, she is still processing food and nutrition which she has been lacking , so she will be starving still

we fed over 5 meals all enzymed at the start as she was only 39 pounds at 14 months old, and a skeleton

i am wondering if you should maybe add some Tylan into the mix,. just incase she does have SID because if she does, and 85% do at the start, it will devour her b12

looking good though

[RichardB]

The last time I weighed her on my scale at home before she got sick she was 61 lbs and the male was 63 lbs. He's 68 now and she's always been skinnier. When she was diagnosed she weighed 58 lbs on my scale and 59 lbs yesterday. She doesn't appear to have any symptoms of SID as best as I can tell. She was on a 7 day antibiotic course just prior to starting the enzymes, so I'm hoping that would have knocked out any SID at that time. Her poops look just about normal, what other indications would there be of SID?
I'm thinking that after about a month on the enzymes I'd take her into the vet and have them check her numbers again, at least the B12. So far so good and I couldn't be more happier with the results following the instructions this site gave me. Poops are almost normal and she's gaining weight! What more could you ask for?

Thanks again,
Richard

[Jean]

it might be as well to revisit the b12, they normally recommend 3 months, the cTLI doeesnt need retesting

rumbling tum is the sound of SID

if not, just keep an eye on it, as SID devours B12

but you seem to be doing good

keep at it

Jeanx