New Here - Need some advice

[alannahjb1]

Hi there,

My 8 month old Catahoula puppy Leo was diagnoised with EPI about 3 months ago. He was very skinny before diagnosed but we always thought it was because we adopted him very sick - with pneumonia. Since being diagnosed he's gone from 15 pounds to almost 40, which is great!

However, we are still having some issues regulating his poop. We feed him 3 cups a day (breakfast/lunch/dinner) of a low fiber kibble with 1 teaspoon of enzyme on each meal. Most of his poops on a daily basis are good, with the exception of maybe one/two which starts off good and gets bad. I'm not sure if there is something else we can do to help regulate this or not.

He also appears to be experiencing some acid reflux. Not sure if anyone has any suggestions for this either.

It can be frustrating at times because some days everything is so good and other days we feel like we've taken a step back. I also should note we are doing B12 injections now every other week. We started by doing them every week for 6 weeks, and then moved to every other week per our vets instructions.

Last thing, it's hard not give him treats when training him. We have tried to find treats very low in fiber and he has also loved bully sticks since we got him at 12 weeks. I'm sure treats and maybe even bones aren't great for him... but I feel like we are depriving him of some excitement in life.

Any advice on the above would be very helpful. Thanks!

[Riley's Mom]

Hi and welcome to the forum
EPI is totally manageable, we can help you get there.
First a few questions....
Do you know the test numbers? For both the TLI and B12?
What type of enzymes are you using, how are you preparing? What type of food are you feeding?

There are 4 cornerstones to managing EPI:

Food: which is sometimes the hardest thing to get just right. There are a lot of foods out there, not every one will work for every EPI dog. So once all the other things are straight if the poops don't get better, food may be an option to tweak, I'd stay with what you are feeding for now. It may turn out to be just fine once everything else is balanced.

Enzymes: Most enzymes need to be given at a ratio of 1 level tsp per cup of food if you are giving powdered enzymes. They need to be porcine based, not plant based. Let us know which kind you are using so we can get more specific with you.

B12: Glad you are addressing this. Over 80% of EPI dogs need supplementation for life. The levels should be 600 or greater for an EPI dog. Stick with every other week injections for now, but it may have to be more often or supplement with Wonderlabs Pet Factor B12 with intrinsic factor in between. B12 is very important to how these dogs do.

Antibiotics: EPI dogs struggle with SID which is treatable with Slippery Elm powder or antibiotics, Tylan preferred. Read about it under the Managing EPi tab, there is a lot of info about SID and reflux there.

Now on to the food and treats. If you are giving 3 cups of food and 1 tsp of enzymes, likely you are seeing iffy poops due to too little enzymes. I would also encourage you to break up meals into smaller portions and try not to feed more than 2 cups at a time, it is easier for them to digest that way. I know, easier said than done with schedules. Do the best you can
As far as the treats go, all food must be treated with enzymes going forward. Each time he eats a treat without enzymes, it invites bacteria to flourish in his gut (because he can't digest without the enzymes) and puts you in a one step forward two steps back pattern
I know it's hard. There are ways to give them treats, some have made a mush with food and water and enzymes and put in a squirt bottle and give a little squirt in their mouth as a treat. There is a section about treats on the home page with ideas of what people do. But I would caution you to wait a bit till things are stable before giving treats.
I promise you, once you get things balanced and stable it will just be part of your daily routine.
Give us more info and also ask questions as you have them.

[jilbert57]

Hi and welcome. Elisabeth has given you great advice. Some dogs like ice chips for treats.

[Jean]

GOOD MORNING FROM UK

regarding treats, i have learned its us thats deprived, not the animal

we couldnt give treats for way over 2 years, and Kara was diagnosed at 14 months, so she was used to treats, the one thing is, are you giving treats without enzymes ?

the rule is food in , enzyme in

the only exception is water, and medication

we used a ball, they love that as a reward, especially a squeaky one

I assume you meant you are feeding 3 times a day, one cup at each feed. with one teaspoon enzyme per meal, can you clarify

acid reflux is one we have struggled with, what time of the day is this generally, if first thing then it could be an empty stomach over night, and an enzymed small meal of maybe scrambled egg, and mashed potato at bed time might help

the other thing is, there could be SID, which is an imbalance in the gut of bad bugs, and we use Tylan twice daily for this, if it is apparent by usually rumbling tum, it will deplete the b12 given

we use Ranitidine, (Zantac) 30 mins before food, which coats the gut, you can buy Ranitidine much cheaper than the branded one

please ask away

Jean

[Madelon]

Hi and welcome to our EPI family. The first and most important thing that stood out to me was the ratio of enzymes to food. The recommended starting dose is 1tsp per cup of kibble. Too little or too much enzymes have the same result - bad poop. I would start with that change first.