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new here, talking about my dog
Posted: 10 Apr 2019, 04:08
by shirleyfang
Hi there,
My 3-year-old German shepherd, Caesar, was diagnosed with EPI last November. He began to gnaw at his skin and lose weight last July.His TLI-result was 3.7ug/l，and losted 5 kg of weight.
When I searched for information, I found epi4dog and learned a lot of professional knowledge from it.I bought pancreatin, B12 injection, tylosin, cereal-free dog food.Caesar has gained 1.5 kg in weight since December last year. The obvious bones are slowly covered with meat.It's a pleasant thing, but I still have a few questions to seek advice from you.
He grew very slowly and even occasionally lost weight. I tried to increase the amount of pancreatin and food, but the effect was limited.What else can I do to gain his weight? Thank you.
Re: new here, talking about my dog
Posted: 10 Apr 2019, 05:08
by Jean
Good Morning from UK
what is your name, and what part of China are you ?
You are doing all of the right things
my suggestion would be, to feed 50% more each day of the recommended amount for the weight Caesar should be, over as many meals as you can fit in, maybe 3 or 4, all enzymed
what food are you feeding ?
increasing enzymes without increasing the amount of food will have VERY limited value
huge welcome from across the world
Jean ::
Re: new here, talking about my dog
Posted: 10 Apr 2019, 09:09
by Riley's Mom
Hi and welcome to the forum
How are your dog's poops? That a how you can really tell how things are going with your dog. If the poops are good, not runny or frequent then your pup is probably doing well.
As far as the weight goes, some dogs take a bit of time to regain their weight. If he is no longer losing, and all other things are good (good poops, no stomach rumbling or gas), then he just may take some time to regain. I agree with Jean, feed 150% of the recommendation on the dog food bag for Caesar's goal weight, not his current weight. Break up meals over 3-4 feedings as your schedule allows. Make sure you are using enzymes for every meal.
Keep us posted and let us know how he does, and welcome to our EPI family.
Re: new here, talking about my dog
Posted: 10 Apr 2019, 16:47
by Barb
Hello and welcome!
I was wondering if you are still supplementing his B12. Our German Shepherd, Kolby, was a very slow gainer. As Lis said, some dogs gain weight slowly. However, only after we got his B12 levels up did he start to gain steadily. We gave injections for quite some time, then switched over to B12 capsules from Wonderlabs. I don't know if they ship to China, but you can check out their website. Their B12 pills (Pet Factor or Trinfac B)have Intrinsic Factor which helps them to be absorbed.
Let us know.
Barb
Re: new here, talking about my dog
Posted: 10 Apr 2019, 17:52
by jilbert57
Hi and welcome.
I noted your dogs score was 3.7. With this score you definitely should use enzymes . Please RETEST the Tli at 6 months, or if money is tight 8 months. If it remains elevated at 3.7 upon retest, continue with enzymes but retest again in 6-8 months again. I was told by another staff it may take up to 2 years to get a diagnosis. If the TLI is trending upward it is not EPI.
From TAMU website:
Serum Trypsin-Like Immunoreactivity (TLI)
Interpretation
In dogs, values below 2.5 µg/L are diagnostic for EPI. Values between 3.5 and 5.7 µg/L are rarely if ever associated with signs of EPI but may reflect subclinical pancreatic disease such as subtotal pancreatic acinar cell destruction secondary to on-going immune-mediated lymphocytic pancreatitis. Progression of the disease in such patients may ultimately lead to EPI. Values between 2.5 and 3.5 µg/L are sometimes (but rarely) associated with clinical signs due to EPI. In these cases the TLI assay should be repeated after one month paying particular attention to ensuring that food is withheld for 8 to 12 hours before the blood sample is collected."
Does your pup ever have a gut ache after eating?
Let us know how it goes!
Re: new here, talking about my dog
Posted: 10 Apr 2019, 23:25
by shirleyfang
Jean wrote: ↑10 Apr 2019, 05:08
Good Morning from UK
what is your name, and what part of China are you ?
You are doing all of the right things
my suggestion would be, to feed 50% more each day of the recommended amount for the weight Caesar should be, over as many meals as you can fit in, maybe 3 or 4, all enzymed
what food are you feeding ?
increasing enzymes without increasing the amount of food will have VERY limited value
huge welcome from across the world
Jean ::
Hi,I am from Beijing, China.Thank you for your recognition of my work.
The brand of dog food now being eaten is ACANA. According to the recommended diet, Caesar weighs 36.5 kg and eats 265g of food every day. But I give him 500g of food every day.While because of my job, he can only be fed two meals a day.
Thank you for your advice. I will try to provide him with 3-4 meals on weekends,all enzymed.
Re: new here, talking about my dog
Posted: 11 Apr 2019, 00:39
by shirleyfang
Riley's Mom wrote: ↑10 Apr 2019, 09:09
Hi and welcome to the forum
How are your dog's poops? That a how you can really tell how things are going with your dog. If the poops are good, not runny or frequent then your pup is probably doing well.
As far as the weight goes, some dogs take a bit of time to regain their weight. If he is no longer losing, and all other things are good (good poops, no stomach rumbling or gas), then he just may take some time to regain. I agree with Jean, feed 150% of the recommendation on the dog food bag for Caesar's goal weight, not his current weight. Break up meals over 3-4 feedings as your schedule allows. Make sure you are using enzymes for every meal.
Keep us posted and let us know how he does, and welcome to our EPI family.
Thank you for your welcome.
Every day Caesar goes out to poop 2-3 times, the first time is very normal, but the second time it will be a bit soft.The time of poop did not increase compared with before the illness.
Compared to normal feeding, my daily feeding rate is 150%, but only twice a day.
I will try to increase the number of feedings over the weekend to observe his weight changes.
Re: new here, talking about my dog
Posted: 11 Apr 2019, 00:58
by shirleyfang
Barb wrote: ↑10 Apr 2019, 16:47
Hello and welcome!
I was wondering if you are still supplementing his B12. Our German Shepherd, Kolby, was a very slow gainer. As Lis said, some dogs gain weight slowly. However, only after we got his B12 levels up did he start to gain steadily. We gave injections for quite some time, then switched over to B12 capsules from Wonderlabs. I don't know if they ship to China, but you can check out their website. Their B12 pills (Pet Factor or Trinfac B)have Intrinsic Factor which helps them to be absorbed.
Let us know.
Barb
Hello，
Caesar has been consistently injected with B12 every week. Thank you for your suggestion of wonderlabs B12 capsule. I will communicate with the website whether it can be sent to China.
I hope capsules can help Caesar.
Re: new here, talking about my dog
Posted: 11 Apr 2019, 01:31
by shirleyfang
jilbert57 wrote: ↑10 Apr 2019, 17:52
Hi and welcome.
I noted your dogs score was 3.7. With this score you definitely should use enzymes . Please RETEST the Tli at 6 months, or if money is tight 8 months. If it remains elevated at 3.7 upon retest, continue with enzymes but retest again in 6-8 months again. I was told by another staff it may take up to 2 years to get a diagnosis. If the TLI is trending upward it is not EPI.
From TAMU website:
Serum Trypsin-Like Immunoreactivity (TLI)
Interpretation
In dogs, values below 2.5 µg/L are diagnostic for EPI. Values between 3.5 and 5.7 µg/L are rarely if ever associated with signs of EPI but may reflect subclinical pancreatic disease such as subtotal pancreatic acinar cell destruction secondary to on-going immune-mediated lymphocytic pancreatitis. Progression of the disease in such patients may ultimately lead to EPI. Values between 2.5 and 3.5 µg/L are sometimes (but rarely) associated with clinical signs due to EPI. In these cases the TLI assay should be repeated after one month paying particular attention to ensuring that food is withheld for 8 to 12 hours before the blood sample is collected."
Does your pup ever have a gut ache after eating?
Let us know how it goes!
Your suggestion is very useful.
I plan to take Caesar for another TLI test in June this year.
You mentioned “Values between 3.5 and 5.7 µg/L are rarely if ever associated with signs of EPI”，do I need to check Caesar for other diseases? Or continue to treat according to the treatment of EPI. And he doesn't have a gut ache after eating.
Thank you!
Re: new here, talking about my dog
Posted: 11 Apr 2019, 03:59
by Jean
Do you have the results of the tests run to establish EPI
this is what it says on the USA University site
In dogs, values below 2.5 µg/L are diagnostic for EPI. Values between 3.5 and 5.7 µg/L are rarely if ever associated with signs of EPI but may reflect subclinical pancreatic disease such as subtotal pancreatic acinar cell destruction secondary to on-going immune-mediated lymphocytic pancreatitis. Progression of the disease in such patients may ultimately lead to EPI. Values between 2.5 and 3.5 µg/L are sometimes (but rarely) associated with clinical signs due to EPI. In these cases the TLI assay should be repeated after one month paying particular attention to ensuring that food is withheld for 8 to 12 hours before the blood sample is collected.
so was this test 12 hours fasted ?
the test results will show that laboratory's parametors
let us know what it says, it will say the result and whether it shows EPI , did the vets tell you it was EPI
3.7 is so very close to the positive , and as this states a repeat test should be done, after maybe month
also you are seeing an improvement since November of 2018, if it were me, I would continue with the enzymes
jEAN