Training treats.

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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ArielleLeblanc
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Location: South Florida
Country: United States
State: Florida

Training treats.

Post by ArielleLeblanc » 15 Jul 2018, 10:02

So I have a question for you all. My pup was just diagnosed with EPI. She’s only a year and I am always working on “training” with my dogs. Now that she has EPI what kind of “training treats” can I give her? I know I have to wait until she stabilized, but what kind of things have you guys given your fur babies that have worked for you?
My girl Nala was diagnosed when she was 1year 2months with EPI July 11th,2018. She is a red merle Catahoula rescued from a high kill shelter in alabama. Her TLI results were <1(less than)and her B12 was 1362.

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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Training treats.

Post by Madelon » 15 Jul 2018, 11:01

Hi and welcome to the group. Here’s s link to some recipes on our website that members have used https://epi4dogs.com/treats/. I personally make enzymed kibble jerky - I grind his kibble very fine in a blender and make as usual - same amount of water and enzymes as his regular meal - then I use a jerky tool and make jerky strips and dehydrate at 120 degrees for 7 hours.

The main thing you want to make sure if is that your pup is stable before trying treats and when you do try them watch the poop for several days to see if your pup is tolerating them.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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Riley's Mom
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Country: United States
State: Virginia

Re: Training treats.

Post by Riley's Mom » 15 Jul 2018, 14:28

The other option you can try is to concentrate training time right before or after an enzymed meal, and the meal itself will take care of the treats you give. Remember, it doesn't need to be a big treat, a very small treat will give you the same result as a larger one!
But I agree with Madelon, wait till your pup is stable before you try treats!
Elisabeth

Riley is a 10 year old Labradoodle. She was diagnosed with EPI in 2014.
She currently eats Taste of the Wild, I cup in the morning, 2 cups in the evening, each meal with 1 Wonderlabs B12 sprinkled over her dinner. Enzymes are EnzymeDiane, 1 tsp per cup of food, mixed in home made bone broth. No other supplements or meds at this time.
Riley currently weighs about 44 pounds, which is pretty heavy for her.

Barb
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Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Training treats.

Post by Barb » 15 Jul 2018, 15:01

I agree with Madelon and Lis to wait until your pup is stable. I used frozen enzymed kibble, but Kolby started having less than stellar poos and we wanted to eliminate all possible causes so we used crushed ice instead. This obviously might not work for training if you want to keep treats in your pocket ;) , but whatever you use, as Madelon said, keep a very close record of poos for a week or so. In fact, keep watch for as long as you use the treats, because Kolby seemed to do well for a while with the enzymed frozen kibble, but then it seemed to cause problems several months later.

Barb

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TerryBin
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Posts: 26
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Training treats.

Post by TerryBin » 15 Jul 2018, 16:12

Our 2 EPI pups have not had problems using freeze dried liver treats...but when I think about it a lot of their treats are near their meals. I agree using small amounts of treats is a good idea.
Currently 2 Shiloh Shepherd Pups! Two Shilohs that passed over the Rainbow Bridge.
Taiko was born 6 September 2006 and had EPI; she passed over the Rainbow Bridge 10 April 2019 NOT EPI-related.
Pharaoh born 24 November 2007 and had EPI. He passed September 2020 NOT EPI-related.
Moku born 15 April 2014 and was dx with EPI in January 2019.
Hoshi born 6 July 2019 and does not have EPI
Taiko and Pharaoh were half siblings through their sire; their sire is Moku's grandfather through his Mom. Moku and Hoshi have the same sire.
Moku uses PancreaPlus tablets and receives weekly B12 shots at home.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Training treats.

Post by Olesia711 » 15 Jul 2018, 18:44

when we first starting trying itty bitty tiny treats (size of my thumbnail) i only gave within an hour of an enzymes meal..... after that worked well... then i tried giving treats a little more than an hour away.... and once that worked, then i tried giving the treats even a little more further away from the enzymed meal. it IS a process. I first started with grain free kibble, only 1 piece at a time... i discovered my pup was able to consume only 10 small pieces... then i moved from that to tiny pieces of freeze dried or dried pure protein (meat) that seemed to work better . Eventually i was able to shave a sweet potato, dehydrate the shavings, and then give small pieces of these as a treat.... there are many things you can try but it all depends on what YOUR individual pup can tolerate. Some people when treating for training... will prepare a mush of soft food with enzymes and put in a squeeze tube bottle.... and when the dog needs a food reward for training, squirt a bit of enzymes "mush" into the mouth as a treat :) . There are many posibilities...
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Stacie & Dizzy
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Posts: 50
Country: United States
State: Arkansas

Re: Training treats.

Post by Stacie & Dizzy » 17 Jul 2018, 12:02

I buy the biggest grain free treats I can find, so they won't crumble during incubation. Then I measure out a cup and put one teaspoon of enzymes on them and let them sit for 25 minutes, stirring frequently. I then put them in the dehydrator for 30 minutes on 115 degrees. I turn them over after the first 30 minutes are finished and dehydrate for another 30 minutes. They are usually completely dry by then, if not I do another 30 minutes. I let them cool completely then put them in a ziplock bag and keep in the pantry. They stay good for months. My girl has had no problems with the treats done this way.
My name is Stacie and my girl's name is Dizzy. German Shepherd, Age 10-diagnosed 12/24/2011 at 55 pounds, current weight is 93 pounds.
Feeding Taste of the Wild 4 cups a day with Enzyme Diane 1tsp per cup. Wonderlabs b12 once daily.
Dizzy has Pannus, given Cyclosporine drops in each eye twice daily. Pepcid once daily. Apoquel for allergies once daily.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Training treats.

Post by Olesia711 » 17 Jul 2018, 14:08

that's a pretty good technique, Staci... thanks for sharing!!

For those that are interested..... when dehydrating foods and still maintain the natural enzymes.... and why Staci dries at the temp she does with the enzymes :) .....and even tho the actual temp from various experts does vary a few degrees.... here is one most frequently used temperature to preserve natural enzymes when dehydrating:

Enzymes and Temperature
there are many varying opinions among raw foodists concerning
the temperature at which enzymes become deactivated. the most
frequently quoted temperature is 118ºF/47ºC (food temperature) based
upon the studies of Dr. Edward Howell.

How to use your Dehydrator for Living Foods
According to Ann Wigmore and Viktoras Kulvinskas, the best way to
preserve the living enzymes, and overcome the potential of spoilage
or bacteria growth, is to set the dehydrator on the highest temperature
setting for the first two or three hours, then turn it down to less than
120ºF/49ºC for the remaining time.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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