Please advise! Newly diagnosed EPI Found Bloody Stool!

[Mom of a Tibetan]

Ok, great info. With the new vet I have been cautiously hopeful for a reprieve. I an going to test her with full fat turkey and the enzymes from E. Diane and see how she does. If she can't handle them then I'll go with the full blood workup.

Which enzymes do you use?




.

The fact that there is a good appetite and your pup is full of energy!

Dogs can have an issue and not present in the text book way. The only way to rule out pancreatitis is a blood test, the cPl test that measures the amount of lipase in the blood SPECIFIC to the pancreas. Just having the lipase checked in a blood draw is not accurate for pancreatitis as other organs emit lipase too.

Just like the Schebo test is a good indicator of EPI even followed to a T but it is only an indicator yay or nay. You would need to have the fasting blood test Tli as it is the gold standard to really know if it is EPI you are treating or another medical condition that might mimic it.

Holistic vets are an important part of the medical options we have available. Follow her way just realize if you truly want to know if you are treating symptoms or not at some point you will need blood results.

Good luck and let us know how things go.

[jilbert57]

enzymediane.com. 6x
If it is pancreatitis, even though the pup is on enzymes, the fat must still be restricted to 4% or
less, or the pup will feel poorly after a fatty meal.
Hope this helps.

[Mom of a Tibetan]

Here are the ingredients in the Standard Process glandulars...it doesn't say intrinsic specifically.
Canine Enteric Support
Ingredients
Porcine stomach, L-glutamine, porcine duodenum, porcine jejunum, bovine and ovine spleen, defatted wheat germ, bovine liver, veal bone PMG™ extract, alfalfa juice, bovine parotid PMG™ extract, bovine kidney, mushroom, nutritional yeast, bovine liver PMG™ extract, bovine adrenal PMG™ extract, pea vine juice, bovine pancreas Cytosol™ extract, carrot, rice bran, bovine orchic extract, oat flour, bovine pancreas PMG™ extract, purified bovine bile salts, Tillandsia usneoides, licorice, allantoin, wheat germ oil, beet leaf juice, beet root, calcium glycerophosphate, chlorophyll extract, bovine pituitary PMG™ extract, and bovine parathyroid.

Canina Hepatic Support
Ingredients
Bovine liver PMG™ extract, bovine and ovine spleen, porcine duodenum, bovine kidney, porcine stomach, veal bone PMG™ extract, porcine jejunum, wheat germ oil, mushroom, bovine liver, bovine heart PMG™ extract, bovine orchic extract, ribonucleic acid, alfalfa juice, defatted wheat germ, calcium lactate, Ginkgo biloba, nutritional yeast, rice bran, black currant seed oil, beet leaf juice, beet root, oat flour, Silybum marianum, Taraxacum officinale, bovine liver fat extract, buckwheat leaf juice and seed, high selenium yeast, calcium glycerophosphate, L-glutamine, zinc rice chelate, Brussels sprouts, para-aminobenzoate, Perna canaliculus, Tillandsia usneoides, bovine pituitary PMG™ extract, porcine brain, allantoin, bovine thyroid PMG™ extract, magnesium lactate, betaine hydrochloride, inositol, chlorophyll extract, and choline bitartrate.

I did give her 10% fat Turkey yesterday and she did pretty well on it...she still had panting and had to go out at 5:30 am but her stool was formed and just a little soft no mucus.

Thanks!
Ann

Hello Patsy,
Thanks for the reply! As for the SP glandulars the bottle doesn't say. I'll have to get back with you on that after I try to do a web search to see if I can find the specific ingredients in the products....bottle only have #'s on them not the typical SP bottles with ingredients etc.


I've read about the benefits/need for Tylan and Vit B12 injections.
Molly is keeping her weight steady, great appetite and has good energy. I wonder if the bleeding was caused by the spiked all be it soft spinal bones in the wild caught canned Salmon I was feeding her the day the bleeding started.

Molly just finished a round of strong antibiotics after getting her teeth cleaned and a couple teeth removed. The new vet I took her to felt because of the recent strong round of antibiotic doses she had and the recent fecal transplant capsules I was giving her that it was unlikely she has a bad bug in her system...her fecal sample didn't show any bad bugs/tested fine.

I've been giving Molly probiotics because of the oral surgery I couldn't leave her gut bio-mater unattended, (just finished 30 days of fecal capsules)slipper elm powder and small amounts of psylium powder which does create a pre-biotic environment, plus it helps to firm up the stool...again giving her small amounts.

I'm going to feed her full fat turkey this week with the enzymes from Enzyme Diane and see if her gut can hold with the 10% fat in the turkey. If not then I will go back to the new vet and have a full EPI blood test protocol done.

All the best,
Ann

Tibetans are beauties. , we had an owner in here from the Netherlands who showed them, till one got epi.
To answer the bloody stool question... it’s usually a bug, but if caught early you may not need antibiotics. My ‘normal’ terrier is an avid bird and badger poo eater,and had bloody stool last week. I kept him on scrambled egg or microwaved white fish, mixed with boiled sweet potato, for three days, and he’s fine now.
I hope you get a diagnosis soon. Do let us know! Has she been losing weight?
Epi B12 treatment requires injection or tablets with Intrinsic Factor added. This is a natural enzyme produced the pancreas in dogs, needed for B12 absorption. Do you know what is in the supplements you have got, because it would be useful to us to know if it actually stated if the glandular content was pancreas containing intrinsic factor.
Most people stick to a simple protocol after diagnosis, then any problems are easily identified and tweaked, just one thing at a time. Using pre and probiotics are often left until the worst problems are addressed. They can actually complicate the digestive process which you are keen to analyse, causing diarrhoea.
Faecal transplants are gaining popularity for gut bacteria, but as you know, can’t compensate for a necrotised pancreas.
Best wishes to you both

[Patsy]

Wow , that’s a very comprehensive list of ingredients. I’ve never herd of this before. I hope someone more qualified than me can comment on it. Thanks for the information..
she seems to be doing ok, if the blood and mucous have cleared up. Is she still panting, because Marti, in eight years of ups and downs, never did this. It could be pain related , stress, heart or lungs, Addison’s or Cushings, diabetes. Maybe just a reaction to the nasty taste of enzymes. Clean her mouth with some water, or squirt some in with a turkey blaster! Wipe round the gums with a damp cloth. Acid reflux is common, and ready hurts. These are just some ideas, so don’t mind me rambling on.
Sometimes we have to go right back to the beginning to unravel the mystery. Too many changes in treatment and their side effects get in a muddle. . If you are getting good poos, not epi cowpats, don’t change what you’re doing. . You re a great dog mum.

[Mom of a Tibetan]

Thanks for the encouragement!!
She's panted since day one only when eating heavier fat meals usually only from 2pm-4pm after she's eaten the higher fat meat meal in the morning. Other than that she doesn't pant. She used to have the cow pie stools when she wasn't on the enzymes when ever she ate meat with fat above 5%.

I just heard back from the holistic vet the blood Tli test and B12 folate tests run $350.00. That is seems really high! I googled it on line and most posts say around 100.00.
Do you have any idea if the 350.00 fee is the going rate now?

Wow , that’s a very comprehensive list of ingredients. I’ve never herd of this before. I hope someone more qualified than me can comment on it. Thanks for the information..
she seems to be doing ok, if the blood and mucous have cleared up. Is she still panting, because Marti, in eight years of ups and downs, never did this. It could be pain related , stress, heart or lungs, Addison’s or Cushings, diabetes. Maybe just a reaction to the nasty taste of enzymes. Clean her mouth with some water, or squirt some in with a turkey blaster! Wipe round the gums with a damp cloth. Acid reflux is common, and ready hurts. These are just some ideas, so don’t mind me rambling on.
Sometimes we have to go right back to the beginning to unravel the mystery. Too many changes in treatment and their side effects get in a muddle. . If you are getting good poos, not epi cowpats, don’t change what you’re doing. . You re a great dog mum.

[Mom of a Tibetan]

Jill,
Do you know what the going rate is for the Tli and B12 blood tests? Vet just emailed me saying the fee for the blood tests would be $350.00. That is higher than what is posted on line...not that is always reliable!

enzymediane.com. 6x
If it is pancreatitis, even though the pup is on enzymes, the fat must still be restricted to 4% or
less, or the pup will feel poorly after a fatty meal.
Hope this helps.

[jilbert57]

Just saw this. I will check back in Mickeys bloodwork.

[jilbert57]

In 2013 I paid 289.00 for Tli, cobalamin, folate and spec cPl .

[Mom of a Tibetan]

ok so this is within that range. Thanks Jill!

In 2013 I paid 289.00 for Tli, cobalamin, folate and spec cPl .

[jilbert57]

Sure. Someone else may pop in with more current test prices.