New to EPI - Help with Enzyme-Where to buy

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Kimborra
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Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Scarlet

New to EPI - Help with Enzyme-Where to buy

Post by Kimborra » 28 Apr 2019, 17:50

Greetings!
Out 1.5 year old, Scarlet Begonia, has what we think, EPI. We had her TLI done twice, the values didn't indicate EPI but after several weeks of the vets treating for other digestion issues, she was still losing a pound a day!
Metronidazole, Tylan, prednisone, you name it, still losing and still showing every single symptom of EPI.
After too long we asked the internal med vet "can we just try enzyme treatment? Would it hurt her?" He said no it wouldn't, so we ordered PancreaPlus and within one week she gained 1.5 pounds. This was in March. Today she is up 11 pounds and off all meds except a very small pred dose (and probiotic).
Our question now is, who has a really good and much less expensive enzyme powder other than PancreaPlus because that is expensive!
We don't want to take any steps backwards and we feel this is going to be Boo-Boo's lifetime thing so we want to giver her quality enzymes but reduce the cost.
Any suggestions?? Thanks!!

Barb
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Re: New to EPI - Help with Enzyme-Where to buy

Post by Barb » 28 Apr 2019, 18:38

Hello and welcome!

Many, many of us get our enzymes from Enzyme Diane (enzymediane.com) She is a member here and began providing enzymes when her own dog was diagnosed. She has an excellent product (pancreatin) and is wonderful to work with. We have been using her enzymes for Kolby for 9 years and she has saved us so much.

You can check out her website and/or talk to her in person. She publishes her phone number.

Barb

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jilbert57
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Re: New to EPI - Help with Enzyme-Where to buy

Post by jilbert57 » 28 Apr 2019, 20:00

Will you post the test results? It would help to know what you have tested for in order to treat.
I am glad the enzymes are helping. I am not sure about the longterm use of pancreatic enzymes if the pup doesn't have EPI nor pancreatitis. Thanks for posting results.
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Madelon
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Pet name: Doc

Re: New to EPI - Help with Enzyme-Where to buy

Post by Madelon » 28 Apr 2019, 22:18

Hi and welcome to our EPI family. So glad you've seen some weight gain - we all know what a relief it is to see our fur babies finally gain some weight.

If you could post your test results, TLI , B12 and Folate that will help us be able to make suggestions. While treating as if EPI is okay for the short term, it is not recommended for a long period of time as the symptoms of EPI can mimic many other conditions.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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Jean
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Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: New to EPI - Help with Enzyme-Where to buy

Post by Jean » 29 Apr 2019, 07:10

hello and welcome from UK

Enzyme Diane is one a lot of US folk rely on

so if you could answer the queastions, it will help

jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: New to EPI - Help with Enzyme-Where to buy

Post by Madelon » 29 Apr 2019, 07:46

Sorry - I forgot to answer the question about less expensive enzymes. Most of us get our enzymes from EnzymeDiane - I would get the 6x as it's closest to the strength of the enzymes you are currently using and the dosage is the same - 1tsp per cup of food.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

Barb
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Country: United States
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Re: New to EPI - Help with Enzyme-Where to buy

Post by Barb » 29 Apr 2019, 09:34

Yes, I agree....if you can post the test results, it will help us to offer suggestions and to point you in the right direction if your pup does not have EPI.


Barb

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Riley's Mom
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Re: New to EPI - Help with Enzyme-Where to buy

Post by Riley's Mom » 29 Apr 2019, 17:57

Welcome to the forum, did they ever retest for EPI? Or did y'all just go on symptoms?
I would strongly encourage you to retest if you haven't. There have been cases where the pup had symptoms but tested negative....and when the test was repeated after about 6 months or so TLI was positive. The pancreas takes a while to atrophy and sometimes symptoms appear before full blown EPI is diagnosed. While treating with enzymes without testing for the short term won't hurt them, over the long term it could actually mask something else going on. Some other conditions could mimic EPI and go untreated. When you do test (if it hasn't been done yet), make sure your pup is fasting for 12 hours and ask for B12 and Folate to also be tested.
Elisabeth

Riley is a 10 year old Labradoodle. She was diagnosed with EPI in 2014.
She currently eats Taste of the Wild, I cup in the morning, 2 cups in the evening, each meal with 1 Wonderlabs B12 sprinkled over her dinner. Enzymes are EnzymeDiane, 1 tsp per cup of food, mixed in home made bone broth. No other supplements or meds at this time.
Riley currently weighs about 44 pounds, which is pretty heavy for her.

Kimborra
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Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Scarlet

Re: New to EPI - Help with Enzyme-Where to buy

Post by Kimborra » 29 Apr 2019, 22:20

Thank you all for your responses. A couple have asked her test results. I have the initial tests results from our regular vet here. But the 2nd test I need to get from the internal med vet. Both say the values aren't quite there. When the IM vet saw the positive results in weight gain and firm stools, he said something about the fact she could have an issue with one of the enzymes, or lack thereof, and that could have skewed the numbers.

The internal med vet also performed ultrasound and endoscopy.
They found "stuff" in her stomach, grass, leaves, fiber, plastic; most likely from the fact she was eating everything she could get her mouth on. Now everything is normal.


TLI result from regular vet was 6.9 ug/L with a reference range of 5.0 - 35.0
Sorry! We also did test folate which was 13.3 ug/L and cobalamin 412 ng/L
The internal med tested B12 but again everything in normal range.

We will have her retested now that it seems her stomach really IS empty!The initial results could have indeed been messed up because too much "stuff" and not truly an empty stomach. Yes we definitely fasted her.

She had the cow paddy loose poops, massive weight loss, super starving, ate her poops, rumbly belly and so on.
We have been weening her off all the meds she was on and all she has now is 10mg Pred and the enzymes.

She still eats like she's starving. We are giving her 150% of her normal food spread over 3 meals and with enzymes.
All I know at this point is we have already spent thousands trying to fix her and this is working.
Until she gains all weight back we are hesitant to change.

Not sure if this helps. Appreciate all of you and your suggestions. Many thanks! Kim

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Riley's Mom
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Re: New to EPI - Help with Enzyme-Where to buy

Post by Riley's Mom » 30 Apr 2019, 21:16

I agree, I would be hesitant to change as well since you are finally on the right track....
Some dogs don't show symptoms until they have the TLI numbers that indicate EPI, but every dog is different.
It would be interesting to see if the TLI numbers are trending down from one test to the next. It takes a while for the Pancreas to complete it's downward slide. :(
Is the test you had the numbers for the first one run? And the one you got at the internist run later?
Elisabeth

Riley is a 10 year old Labradoodle. She was diagnosed with EPI in 2014.
She currently eats Taste of the Wild, I cup in the morning, 2 cups in the evening, each meal with 1 Wonderlabs B12 sprinkled over her dinner. Enzymes are EnzymeDiane, 1 tsp per cup of food, mixed in home made bone broth. No other supplements or meds at this time.
Riley currently weighs about 44 pounds, which is pretty heavy for her.

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