Need help gaining weight on our Lab

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
mn50racer
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Posts: 2
Country: United States
State: Minnesota
Pet name: Georgia

Need help gaining weight on our Lab

Post by mn50racer » 20 Jun 2019, 14:16

Hello everyone, I am a new member to the forum. Our 4 year old Lab Georgia after 6 months of tests and trials we have determined to have EPI due to meeting all symptoms (Diarrhea, drastic weight loss, rumbling stomach, eating stool). She went from 60lbs to a scant 35 lbs. in about 6 months. With current treatment her stools look great, she is full of energy and still happy as ever, but are struggling to put weight back on her. We have been treating for about 2 months now with Bio Case, Wonderlabs B-12 with intrinsic factor and ProBios probiotics sprinkled over her softened food. I am switching to Bio Case Plus tomorrow which contain all the same supplements in one capsule (a little cheaper and higher values of supplements). We feed her a quality food (Zignature Duck and Chickpea) 4 cups per day (2 cups/twice a day) which is 150% feeding. She is currently at about 38 lbs. and has been hovering there for about a month. She looks to be putting on weight but by the scale she is not. She does still eat her stool from time to time, but I think it is habit now. Any ideas on how to put some weight on our girl?

Ruby
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Posts: 41
Country: United States
State: Florida

Re: Need help gaining weight on our Lab

Post by Ruby » 20 Jun 2019, 21:52

hi, I am not familiar with the dog food you are feeding your dog. I do know my dog weighs about 57 lbs. I was feeding her 2 cups twice a day (4 cups total). Then I read on the package this food was suppose to be feed 2 3/4 cups at each feeding. That made a big difference. Just a thought. Maybe this will help you. Don't give up though because it can take some time for them to gain weight. Also, my thought could be that you dog may be more active and that is why you dog is not gaining weight.

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Jean
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Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Need help gaining weight on our Lab

Post by Jean » 21 Jun 2019, 03:05

huge welcome from the UK

what is your name please

at 60 pounds weight, which I assume is what she SHOULD be, you should be feeding 2 1/4 cups per meal, plus 50 %, perhaps over a few meals, we fed over 5 meals, my Kara went down to 39 pounds at 14 months,, she was a mess

https://www.zignature.com/menu/duck-formula-dry/

fibre at 6% is a little high, but each dog is different

have you had the 8-12 hour food fasted cTLI blood test to confirm EPI diagnosis

have you looked at Enzyme Diane

she does discounted enzymes which most of our US members use

https://enzymediane.com/

The increase in food should help

any tummy rumbles ?



let us know

Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Miss Maddie Moo
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Posts: 119
Country: United Kingdom - England

Re: Need help gaining weight on our Lab

Post by Miss Maddie Moo » 21 Jun 2019, 07:22

Couple of things can you tell us what dose of enzymes you are using to food?Also with the food perhaps increase this to 2.5 cups per meal and see if that helps or if possible give a lunch as well for a time and see if this increases the weight.
Also i note you said you are treating the symptoms so i assume that this means you didn't actually test for EPI ? EPi can mimic many other conditions hence why i ask about the testing.
Maddie DX April 2011 along with low B12 she was feed with a low fibre food below 3% , fat was not restricted ( she wasnt good on pea based foods ) She initially had a course of B12 shots weekly over a period of 6 months and then we used the B12 pills from Chemeyes in the UK . We used Panzym and slowly had to increase the dose as she aged when she was first DX she was 23kg but she gained weight quickly and got back to 33 kg .
Maddie gained her angel wings in Jan 2018 at the age of 10 to a condition unrelated to EPI.
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Barb
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Posts: 365
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Need help gaining weight on our Lab

Post by Barb » 21 Jun 2019, 20:39

Hello and welcome! It sounds like you and your pup are going in the right direction. If finances allow it, I join the others in recommending the cTLI test to make sure you have the correct diagnosis.

Some dogs are slow gainers....it took our Kolby a year to get back to his normal weight. From what others have said, you could increase the food a bit. Also, do you know her B12 level? Kolby did not start to steadily increase in weight until we had his B12 levels up.

I also heartily endorse Enzyme Diane's enzymes. She has an excellent product at a fraction of the cost of the commercial brands..We have been using them for many years. Kolby is now 10 and was diagnosed when he was 1.

You might want to keep a log/journal of everything you give Georgia, the amounts, and the resulting poos. This tells you what works and what doesn't. It can also alert you to problems that pop up.

You are doing a great job. Georgia is lucky to have you. Ask any questions you have.

Barb

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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
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State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Need help gaining weight on our Lab

Post by Madelon » 21 Jun 2019, 21:44

Hi and welcome to our EPI family. I am jumping on the bandwagon - while your pup is displaying symptoms of EPI, those symptoms mimic many other conditions/diseases which if left undiagnosed can be fatal. It's okay to treat as EPI for a short while, but not long term without a confirmed cTLI testing. How long have you been feeding enzymes and following the EPI protocol? If you have been treating as EPI for a while and not seeing results, without proper testing, it could be IF EPI the food is not the right food, you might need to tweak enzymes, might need a different form of B12, might not be feeding enough food, could be dealing with SID. The cTLI test which will include B12 and Folate testing should cost around $150-200 - be sure your dog is fasted at least 12 hours. Please keep us posted - we are here to help no matter what.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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Jean
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Posts: 736
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Need help gaining weight on our Lab

Post by Jean » 24 Jun 2019, 06:48

Hi

I have sent you an email just incase you havent had notification about replies on this post

Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

mn50racer
Member
Posts: 2
Country: United States
State: Minnesota
Pet name: Georgia

Re: Need help gaining weight on our Lab

Post by mn50racer » 24 Jun 2019, 09:35

Thank you all for your response. It looks like I will have to get the cTLI and Folate test before moving any further. I am looking for a vet locally that offers that.

Here is the current treatment I am doing for the ones who asked:

Food: Zignature Duck and Chickpea. https://www.zignature.com/menu/duck-formula-dry/
2cups Morning and 2 cups Evening
427kcal/cup

Enzymes: Bio Case Plus https://www.thomaslabs.com/product/bio- ... ic-enzymes
Morning: 2 Capsules sprinkled over wettened food
Evening: 2 Capsules sprinkled over wettened food
Guaranteed Analysis per capsule (425 mg):
Vitamin B12 (min).................................................................... 1000 mcg
*Lipase (dried porcine pancreas) (min).................................... 9,042 USPa
*Protease (dried porcine pancreas) (min)............................... 71,925 USPb
*alpha-Amylase (dried porcine pancreas) (min)....................... 73,980 USPc
*Trypsin (dried porcine pancreas) (min)................................. 68,760 USPd
*Lactobacillus acidophilus (min).............................................1 Billion CFU

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Miss Maddie Moo
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Posts: 119
Country: United Kingdom - England

Re: Need help gaining weight on our Lab

Post by Miss Maddie Moo » 24 Jun 2019, 13:48

Hello again i am so glad that you are considering the test we have seen dogs treated for the symptoms and unfortunately one died hence why we tend to push people to test.
That been said.
Food the fiber is high we suggest below 4%
The B12 we would suggest that you get this tested as well when you have the epi test low B12 alone can cause multiple problems in dogs for an EPI dog the level needs to be in excess of 600 and maintained for life my gal couldn't keep her weight on because the b12 was low we also dont rely on the B12 in the enzyme product we either go for injections or buy the wonderlabs product https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688 some of us do both or start with the injections and then go to the capsules with the capsules i would start a 2 per day if you go this way only.
Can you tell me what the poop is like and how often per day your dog goes need to try and ascertain wether the enzymes you are giving are enough.?
Once you do the test i would suggest that you change to enzyme Diane in the long term this will save you money.
The food this needs to be 150% of want you want your dog to weigh.
Maddie DX April 2011 along with low B12 she was feed with a low fibre food below 3% , fat was not restricted ( she wasnt good on pea based foods ) She initially had a course of B12 shots weekly over a period of 6 months and then we used the B12 pills from Chemeyes in the UK . We used Panzym and slowly had to increase the dose as she aged when she was first DX she was 23kg but she gained weight quickly and got back to 33 kg .
Maddie gained her angel wings in Jan 2018 at the age of 10 to a condition unrelated to EPI.
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Barb
Staff
Posts: 365
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Need help gaining weight on our Lab

Post by Barb » 26 Jun 2019, 13:43

Glad to hear you are looking to run the cTLI test. It is the gold standard for diagnosing EPI. Let us know when you get the results.

Barb

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