Grain free food and heart problems

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Madelon
President
Posts: 549
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Grain free food and heart problems

Post by Madelon » 04 Jul 2019, 08:11

Thank you Olesia. We are so lucky to have you! It's so helpful to have someone that understands all of the medical/technical stuff and then explain it in a way we ordinary pet owners can actually understand.

I personally believe in treating the condition/disease I know my dog has and try not to worry about one that may or may not happen. That being said, if I had a dog that was "predisposed" to DCM, and no medical conditions requiring certain types of food, then I would definitely be taking steps to try and avoid my dog getting DCM.

What I find frustrating is that it's become an all or nothing thing - it's turned into a blanket "grain-free causes DCM" - instead of saying there are certain ingredients in certain grain-free foods believed to possibly be linked to DCM.

I switched Doc to Sport Dog Food Elite Herding several months ago because the food he had been on changed ingredients and increased peas and he had horrible horrible poops. The Sport Dog Food does not have any peas or legumes in the grain-free line!
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

Corgeze
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Posts: 11
Country: United States
State: Iowa

Re: Grain free food and heart problems

Post by Corgeze » 04 Jul 2019, 14:13

Thank you for info on the grain free and cdm. I had a conversation with Fromm yesterday on their grain free food. I really hate to give it up as my girl has been doing so well on it. Fromm does supplement with Taurine and their foods contain ample levels of cysteine and methionine which dogs use to metabolize their own Taurine. My girl is a show dog so I like to keep her the best food that I can. Alot of the grain free that I look at has higher fiber...just not sure what to do. My vet said to hang tight until the FDA fully investigates and then make a decision.

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Miss Maddie Moo
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Posts: 113
Country: United Kingdom - England

Re: Grain free food and heart problems

Post by Miss Maddie Moo » 05 Jul 2019, 06:21

I think you have a very wise vet ! You have also done all you can by contacting Fromm ....i always gave Maddie some home cooked mince as well .
Maddie DX April 2011 along with low B12 she was feed with a low fibre food below 3% , fat was not restricted ( she wasnt good on pea based foods ) She initially had a course of B12 shots weekly over a period of 6 months and then we used the B12 pills from Chemeyes in the UK . We used Panzym and slowly had to increase the dose as she aged when she was first DX she was 23kg but she gained weight quickly and got back to 33 kg .
Maddie gained her angel wings in Jan 2018 at the age of 10 to a condition unrelated to EPI.
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Paige's Guardian
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Posts: 45
Country: United States
State: Arizona

Re: Grain free food and heart problems

Post by Paige's Guardian » 10 Jul 2019, 07:23

Hi all, I have waded through much of the research available...not too much but there is a FB page run by vets and vet cardiologists that has all the research in one place. So, have gone through that. I am posting a link to an interview with Dr. Josh Stern one of the original researchers on the DCM Golden Retriever study.....

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/video ... y-mystery/

Conny
Paige's Guardian (Conny)

Paige, 7-year old Great Dane.

Dx: Malabsorption at age 9 months of age. Low Folate. On plant enzymes for 1.5 years. Experienced bloat 2x and Pancreatitis. Switched to Enzyme Diane. TLI tested but not low.
7/2018-- recovering from another episode of Pancreatitis. cPL >600. Now, starting to need more enzymes with food. Will have lab work again, once cPL is stable then, will repeat TLI.
7/2018--cPL <50 (normal) SID-Tylan 3/8 tsp 2x/day
8/2018---moving towards addition of dry dog food (FirstMate Ocean) and tapering off Tylan.
9/2018--1/8 tsp tylan in am. More dry dog food (FirstMate Ocean)

xena
Member
Posts: 3
Country: United States
State: New York
Pet name: xena & silba

Re: Grain free food and heart problems

Post by xena » 26 Jul 2019, 13:27

It is hard to sort through all the information on this. I've been feeding Taste of the Wild Sierra Mountain for past 9 years and EPI is managed great. I checked and lentils, peas, and pea flour are listed in the first 10 ingredients.

Does anyone have a suggestion on a grain free food without peas and lentils?

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jilbert57
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Posts: 514
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Grain free food and heart problems

Post by jilbert57 » 27 Jul 2019, 09:22

Have you looked at the page with lists of dog foods that meet your criteria. Pea free.
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 12 yrs young. TJ is a 3 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

xena
Member
Posts: 3
Country: United States
State: New York
Pet name: xena & silba

Re: Grain free food and heart problems

Post by xena » 27 Jul 2019, 11:30

no sorry where would I find that. I looked under managing epi but didn't see a list of dog food brands

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jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 514
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Grain free food and heart problems

Post by jilbert57 » 27 Jul 2019, 11:41

Once you are on the managing EPI page, there are three blue dashmarks in the upper right corner. Click on those and a lot of topics are there.

https://epi4dogs.com/dog-food-options/
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 12 yrs young. TJ is a 3 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

xena
Member
Posts: 3
Country: United States
State: New York
Pet name: xena & silba

Re: Grain free food and heart problems

Post by xena » 27 Jul 2019, 17:00

great thanks!

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Madelon
President
Posts: 549
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Grain free food and heart problems

Post by Madelon » 27 Jul 2019, 22:15

Hi Xena. If your EPI dog has been doing well for 9 years on her food I would not switch it. That can be the hardest part to figure out with EPI and changing it could throw everything out of balance, especially if you don't even know if DCM is at play with your dog and there's no direct link between "grain free" and DCM - it's certain suspect ingredients and then there are MANY other factors to consider. If you are worried your dog might have DCM, then I would talk to your vet about testing your dog's taurine levels and/or having an echo done. Personally, I am not worried about a condition that I don't know my dog has or if my dog will develop, I'm concerned with the condition my dog currently has, EPI.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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