Not eating...again

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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lsporter
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Posts: 6
Country: United States
State: Florida

Not eating...again

Post by lsporter » 14 Jul 2019, 21:19

Stewie turned 15 last week. She was diagnosed with epi when she was 13. I know I've posted about her eating in the past. 2 months ago it got worse,where she lost a bunch of weight, acting weird and unsteady and she was diagnosed with a UTI. Her poops were not bad during this time. Per the vet, she was given Zinquen 25 mg 1`/2 tablet every 24 hours. She didn't tolerate that at all. Lost more weight (at her best after EPI diagnosis was 7lbs, a year ago, at time of EPI diagnosis, down to 4.9 lbs). cut down zeniquen to 1/4 tab a day, per vet. She was up and down with the food eating, but did gain a pound that she lost back just 2 days ago.(6.4 lb) Now she's refusing to eat again. Same food, try different presentations. She has no problem eating a treat. She looks at me all the time like, HELP. I just don't know what to do. She takes B12 everyday, I've tried different amounts of enzymes. I've even gone so far as throwing out enzyme at the bottom of the bag and starting a new bag. Anyone have these issues before? She is otherwise okay - getting up and down stairs, no yelping, fighting/playing with her sister. Thanks in advance. Y'all always have such good advice.
Stewie was diagnosed in November 2017. She was a healthy 13 year old black chihuahua until July 2017 when she started losing weight, along with all the other horrible symptoms. She went from over 8 lbs. to 4.9 just before diagnosis. She was on metronidazole until she got sick from it.. Tylosin saved the day. She currently eats turkey & barley Science Diet 2x a day, 1/2 cup each feeding, with 1/2 tsp Enzyme Diane and a wonderlabs B12. Weighs around 6.9 lbs now.

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jilbert57
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Posts: 714
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Not eating...again

Post by jilbert57 » 14 Jul 2019, 22:04

Sorry to hear about the not eating issue. Mickey had chronic pancreatitis and started doing this at 14 yrs when he was having liver and kidney issues. Also his breath smelled very metallic. Has your pup had bloodwork recently? Just a thought. Every meal was a challenge but I always got some food in him, even if it wasn't on his diet.
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 13, TJ is a 4 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

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Olesia711
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Posts: 943
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Not eating...again

Post by Olesia711 » 15 Jul 2019, 09:03

I am thinking along the same lines as Jill..... the first thing i would do is have the vet check her kidney values.

Next....Thank you for giving us her daily regimen.... i just looked up adverse effects of Zinquen (for dogs) and one of the problems can be loss of appetite- - can you ask the vet if this could be a possibility .... and if so.... would they consider trying a different antibiotic???? My guess is that they put her on this to take care of the type of bacterial UTI infection she has- -but maybe there is a different class of meds to help her.

Please keep us posted!
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

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lsporter
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Posts: 6
Country: United States
State: Florida

Re: Not eating...again

Post by lsporter » 15 Jul 2019, 09:48

She had blood work when she came down with the UTI. All was good. It's funny how she goes from hungry and eating to hungry and refusing to eat. She ate a little this morning. Thank you for the responses. It is all just so frustrating. EPI is difficult, to say the least. I'll update with any new information that may be of help to someone else.
Stewie was diagnosed in November 2017. She was a healthy 13 year old black chihuahua until July 2017 when she started losing weight, along with all the other horrible symptoms. She went from over 8 lbs. to 4.9 just before diagnosis. She was on metronidazole until she got sick from it.. Tylosin saved the day. She currently eats turkey & barley Science Diet 2x a day, 1/2 cup each feeding, with 1/2 tsp Enzyme Diane and a wonderlabs B12. Weighs around 6.9 lbs now.

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Michaela
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Posts: 27
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Nikki

Re: Not eating...again

Post by Michaela » 16 Jul 2019, 23:13

Nikki drives me nuts with her picky eating, most days she looks at her food like it's evil...long story :lol:

Recently I was so frustrated her with her not wanting to eat, I bought some Honest Kitchen Goat Milk and she really likes that on her food. https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/instan ... oat%20Milk

Also I switched to Pan-tenex enzymes, they don't have the strong smell like some other brands.

"Pan-tenex™ is also Acetone-Free. Some 6x or 8x enzymes may contain a fowl or pungent odor. This is because the enzymes in their product may have been manufactured using Acetone during the extraction process. Not only can this odor be offensive, but many pets do not accept the product once it is mixed into their food."

https://www.pantenexdogenzymes.com/epi- ... tic-enzyme

I hope she starts eating, I know how frustrating this is.
Nikki was diagnosed with EPI in 2010
Royal Canin Potato & Duck canned
Slippery Elm syrup for stomach issues
1.5 tsp Pan-Tenex enzymes with each meal
Weekly B12 shots, pills didn't work for her
Tylan for life

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Miss Maddie Moo
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Country: United Kingdom - England

Re: Not eating...again

Post by Miss Maddie Moo » 17 Jul 2019, 08:00

Thats interesting about the acetone...Michaela i know you to have also struggled over the years with Nikki glad it working out and hopefully your suggestion will help others.
Maddie DX April 2011 along with low B12 she was feed with a low fibre food below 3% , fat was not restricted ( she wasnt good on pea based foods ) She initially had a course of B12 shots weekly over a period of 6 months and then we used the B12 pills from Chemeyes in the UK . We used Panzym and slowly had to increase the dose as she aged when she was first DX she was 23kg but she gained weight quickly and got back to 33 kg .
Maddie gained her angel wings in Jan 2018 at the age of 10 to a condition unrelated to EPI.
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Michaela
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Posts: 27
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Nikki

Re: Not eating...again

Post by Michaela » 17 Jul 2019, 10:24

Miss Maddie Moo wrote:
17 Jul 2019, 08:00
Thats interesting about the acetone...Michaela i know you to have also struggled over the years with Nikki glad it working out and hopefully your suggestion will help others.
I was hesitant to try the Pan-tenex at first but they have worked great and they have fast shipping.

We didn't have a huge problem when I was cooking for her with the Viokase but she stopped eating her home cooked last year also...sigh. I think a lot of it had also to do with her stomach issues she had which made her really sick. We've been able to really improve them with Slippery Elm Syrup after 500 trips (well, maybe not 500 but it seemed like it) to Texas A&M :roll:

The biggest issue we had were with the enzymes from Diane unfortunately, she really didn't like them no matter what I added to try and hide the smell. Also never got good poops on them for some reason but they are all different, what works for most doesn't always work for my dog of course :lol:
Nikki was diagnosed with EPI in 2010
Royal Canin Potato & Duck canned
Slippery Elm syrup for stomach issues
1.5 tsp Pan-Tenex enzymes with each meal
Weekly B12 shots, pills didn't work for her
Tylan for life

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Jean
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Posts: 736
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Not eating...again

Post by Jean » 17 Jul 2019, 12:23

hi there from one picky dog eater to another

sady we lost her in May

that is surely interesting, I have asked Olesia to look into it for me, way above my brain cell

though anything to do with acetone worries me as its toxic to dogs

Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Olesia711
Founder
Posts: 943
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Not eating...again

Post by Olesia711 » 17 Jul 2019, 12:31

Diane is going to respond to Michaela's issue with enzymes ....as Diane is the one who understands manufacturing and the various ways they process enzymes...she has been dealing with the manufacturing/processing end of enzymes for 12+ years.... my focus is on the gastro track :)
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

D Sloan
Member
Posts: 7
Country: United States
State: Ohio

Re: Not eating...again

Post by D Sloan » 17 Jul 2019, 14:40

Pancreatin is made from pig pancreas glands. The gland is very fatty. They use either Isopropyl alcohol or acetone in the manufacturing process to remove that fat.

Enzyme Diane Pancreatin 6x and 8x are made with glands that are sourced in the United States and is processed with isopropyl alcohol in the manufacturing process. It has always been this way.

Many years ago (around 2009) the FDA started to regulate cystic fibrosis patients enzymes (they use the same enzymes) and there was a shortage of pig pancreas glands to make the pancreatin. The manufacturer offered us enzymes that they were making from glands sourced from Germany and France that were processed with acetone to remove the fat. This was an option that we gave clients as without enzymes our pets would not survive. It was still a food grade product. The option was wait for US glands or order the European enzymes as we called them. The European enzymes did have a distinct odor (many of us called it cat pee from the acetone).

China is the largest producer of pork and is someplace that I do not feel comfortable sourcing from or using companies that use their glands to make pancreatin.

Enzyme batches will have an odor and sometimes when they are warmed you will smell some of the residual smells of the manufacturing process. This is normal. Some batches will smell stronger than others. The 6x and 8x Pancreatin sold by Enzyme Diane is a food grade material.

I hope this helps. Yes some dogs are very sensitive to the tastes and changes. Some dogs go off enzymes or go off a food and need a change for some reason.

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