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Dog Breath

Posted: 19 Jul 2019, 06:06
by Tuckaboo Pam
I'm new, and I know this has been researched & is probably an old subject. But, since being on enzymes for a couple of months, my dog's breath smells like dirty tennis shoes. Since this coincides with normal-ish poo, I am happy to change his nickname to Mr. Stinky Breath, and I love it. Reading some of your stories, my heart breaks for you & I realize I have been very lucky with my mild experience. Tucker was skinny, and he ate toilet paper, eyeglasses, billing statements, kong toys, and all the poo he could get his paws on. If I called him in after he left a yellow mess ouside, and before he had eaten it, he would whine and paw at the door, because he wanted to get back to it before I did. My vet said yes, he was slim, his 8-10 a day poops were a little abnormal, and wouldn't it be nice to be able to overeat all the time & never gain an ounce? He was 4 1/2, and hadn't gained or lost weight since he was 6 months old. Then I saw one of those sad rescue stories about a German Shepherd that couldn't gain weight because it had EPI. Out of curiosity, and since Tucker is half shepherd, I googled it & found that he had 8 of 10 symptoms. In 20 years, my vet had never seen a case, but she got on board right away. I won't bore you with our journey, but several months later, after much trial and error, I think we have got it almost under control---for now! I have lots to learn, and I do have some questions for you veterans, but I'll just include one right now---Why no treats in between meals? I understand that they will be of no value, if not taken with enzymes, but does that matter, or is there another reason for this rule? I'm thinking that when I eat an Oreo, I'm not expecting anything good to come of it, but I do it anyway! I will appreciate any input, and so will Tucker, who loves him some 'cookies'.

Re: Dog Breath

Posted: 19 Jul 2019, 09:08
by Miss Maddie Moo
The breath um....that can be a couple of things sometimes it can indicate SIBO is present ...but it can also be the enzymes, but SIBO can present when we give our dogs treats without enzymes that is why we dont recommend it but every dog is different some people can give treats and have no side effects others like my gal it would upset her ...if you look on the tabs there are suggestion on how to make treats with enzymes this may help you also some people give treats near an enzyme d meal but to me thats not what treats are for ! I am glads you found the answer to your dogs problems even though it took time to get it...as long as you address the 4 cornerstones of EPI ,enzymes food b12 and antibtiocs if needed then they go on to lead a normal life.Please ask as many questions as you like we have all been in your shoes.

Re: Dog Breath

Posted: 19 Jul 2019, 09:45
by Jean
Hi Pam

I am glad I was able to sort out your problems with the forum, and your user name, any others , let me know

ok ALL foods that enter the mouth must be enymed, with EPI they cannot digest ANYTHING without them

an Oreo , although fabulous has chocolate on it , and is not good for dogs, which I am sure you know already

normal pancreas starts to secrete digestion enzymes straight away An EPI dogs does not

the stinky breath could be an upset in the gut, it is possible that charcoal could help

something like this maybe

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lintbells-YuDI ... pons&psc=1

but this is UK Amazon site

please give us an update on your daily routine how you came to get diagnosed and was it by faster blood test

Re: Dog Breath

Posted: 19 Jul 2019, 13:37
by Tuckaboo Pam
Hi Jean! Sorry I made my post so confusing. I would never give any of my dogs an Oreo, but I'd sure eat them myself. We call dog treats 'cookies', which are either Fruitables or Newman's Own chicken flavored hearts, both from Amazon. Tucker seems to be fine with the occasional treat, but since reading two responses, I realize that may be because he's still tapering off tylan, and once it's done he would flare up again. Phooey. I love giving my good boy his treats. Guess we'll see,

Re: Dog Breath

Posted: 19 Jul 2019, 14:10
by Tuckaboo Pam
I have four dogs---all rescues, two little fluffies, Tucker my EPI shepherd/lab, and a sheltie mix I found playing on the side of a busy highway. Took him to the shelter, nobody claimed him, so I have been 'fostering' him for three years. It can be hard to make Tucker stick to a regiment, with so much activity at our house, including three dogs who have no digestive problems. Here's Tucker's story---- He was a poop eater from 6 months on, when he seemed about full grown, but he only ate the little girls' poo, which was gross enough. Last year, when he started eating his own, I told the vet we had to do something, so she had me start giving him B12. Besides that nasty habit, he ate bizarre things, like rolls of toilet paper. He also pooed 8-12 times a day, enormous, gold wet piles that I could barely pick up. As I said before, I happened upon an article about a rescue dog with EPI, looked into it & called my vet. With so many dogs, we use a mobile vet, who is wonderful, but she had never had a case of EPI. She started him on some herbs for his liver, just as a trial, and had me continue the B12. With no improvement, she sent me to her support clinic, where an old time vet saw us for FREE because he knew how financially draining this could become. I wanted an EPI test, and he said fine, but maybe we should try a few other things first, and BTW that test costs $440.00. I said tell me your ideas! So he put Tucker on Sulfasalizine & probiotics, continuing the herbs & vitamins (he has great respect for my wholistic vet & it was nice to see this kind of cooperation and kindness). There was terrible diarrhea, and it turned out to be caused by the probiotics, because after switching to another kind, he had the big D again. Tucker started getting better, until the antibiotics ran out. And we were back to soft serve yellow stuff. So, this awesome doctor spent over 45 minutes on the phone with me, and helped me put together a plan, apologizing that the enzymes were so expensive. Being a vet, he would surely make me do the expensive test, I thought, but he told me we'd only do that if I wanted to. Tucker was put on tylan & pancreved, tapering the tylan after a month, and then again unless the symptoms came back. That is where we are now. Tucker's ribs don't show, his waist is filling out, and he is much more playful than before. He gets 1 teaspoon of pancreved & 1/8 teaspoon tylan mixed with water & added to about 2 1/2 cups of kibble & a few bites of chicken, twice a day. The vet has had free phone conversations with me 3 times, and has never asked for a penny. Now, this may be different from what others are doing, but he stresses to me that we are aiming for Good, not Perfect, and that has helped me keep my sanity. Tucker's poo happens 4-5 times a day, and te color and texture are very much like my oter dogs'.After the pancreved is gone, I am going to try Diane's, and we'll see how he does without tylan, though I understand he can be put back on if his symptoms return.

Re: Dog Breath

Posted: 19 Jul 2019, 16:10
by Barb
Hello and welcome. Glad you and Tucker are finding solutions. What a lucky boy he is!

I do recommend Enzyme Diane's enzymes. She provides an excellent product for very reasonable prices. Many of us have been using her enzymes for years.

One thing I noticed in your post is that you are mixing 2 and 1/2 cups of kibble with 1 teaspoon of enzymes. We usually recommend starting with 1 teaspoon per cup of food and then adjusting from there. Tucker seems to be responding to the amount you are giving, but you might want to increase the enzymes a bit and see what happens.....his poos may improve even more.

Another thing that saved our sanity at the beginning was keeping a daily log/journal of everything we gave our pup, the amounts, and the resulting poos. This showed us what was working and what wasn't and it gave us information when we made changes.

I know that costs vary in different states, but $440 sounds like a lot for the cTLI test. Maybe others can chime in here.

Thank you for "fostering" Tucker. It sounds like he landed in exactly the right place when he found you. Let us know how he is doing and ask any other questions you may have.

Barb

Re: Dog Breath

Posted: 19 Jul 2019, 17:05
by Tuckaboo Pam
I was wondering the same thing. There are tests you can buy, but as I understand it, Texas A & M is where the bloodwork is done, and $440 is the price. Will the test be valid while he is taking enzymes? On the actual jar of Pancreved, it says 3/4-1 teaspoon per meal. Nothing about food measurement, which I know is different from what others are saying.

Re: Dog Breath

Posted: 19 Jul 2019, 17:46
by Tuckaboo Pam
BARB, I just increased his enzymes by about 1/4 teaspoon, and will go from there. Thanks so much for your input! JEAN, you, too. Thanks for letting me be here---not so lonely, this way.

Re: Dog Breath

Posted: 19 Jul 2019, 23:50
by Madelon
Hi and welcome to our EPI family. Sorry I'm late to post as I was away on vacation. If your dog has not been tested for EPI through the fasted blood test, it is okay to treat as if EPI for a short while, but we recommend getting the blood test as EPI can mimic many other conditions where if untreated can have dire consequences. In that regard, $440 is A LOT! The most expensive i've heard of is my own at $225. If you increase the enzymes, be sure to increase per cup of food. So if you increase 1/8tsp - increase an 1/8tsp per cup of food not per meal.

EnzymeDiane is where most of the U.S. members get their enzymes as she has quality enzymes at about 1/3 of the cost of the enzymes you get from the vet.

Keep a detailed journal of everything you give and everything that comes out so you know what works and what doesn't and be sure to only make one change at a time so you know if that change helped or not.

EPI is scary at first, but you are not alone - we are all here to help guide you along the way.

Re: Dog Breath

Posted: 20 Jul 2019, 08:41
by Barb
We have all been where you are when our dogs were first diagnosed, which is why Olesia created this wonderful Forum. Hang in there. It seems like a lot to manage, but it gets easier as your pup improves and as you get more familiar with the treatment. You are doing a great job already.

Barb