Hates the taste!

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
liz
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Posts: 4
Country: United States
State: Virginia
Pet name: Jesse

Hates the taste!

Post by liz » 22 Jul 2019, 18:46

I'm a new member as of today. My 9 year old Maltese was diagnosed with EPI a month ago. He takes a teaspoon of Viocase but the problem is he hates, and I do mean hates, the taste. The first day I tried mixing it with his watered down dog food and he went nuts running around shaking his head and hiding. After calling my vet she said to put it in Beechnut Baby Food Broth and he now scoffs that down. After he eats that I give him his prescription kibble. It all seems to be working and he has gained some weight back. He went from 9 lbs to 5.4 but he's now back up to 6.8. I guess my question is - has anyone else had a hard time with their dog hating the taste? The baby food works fine but in doing the numbers, that will come to about $800 a year just for baby food! (He eats twice a day) Also, the Viocase is $260 for a container that will last maybe 40/50 days. I've ordered a small amount of powder from EnzymeDiane because it's so much cheaper to see how that works. (Maybe the taste will be different??) I'm so hoping that powder will keep him stable. Anyway, anyone have any tricks other than baby food to get their dog to take the enzyme powder?

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Hates the taste!

Post by jilbert57 » 22 Jul 2019, 21:07

You can try putting the dose in a gel cap and feeding pre meal you just need to pay attention to the poop. You can feed the incubated meal on a flat plate and drizzle with tuna water or sprinkle parmesan cheese on it. Your pup probably ran around after the first dose because the enzymes are caustic to membranes, like lips and nose and gums. If all that fails you can try Creon. You open a capsule, sprinkle on food and feed.
Dianes enzymes will just fit in where Viokase left off. Her enzymes are great and a great price.
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Hates the taste!

Post by Madelon » 22 Jul 2019, 21:46

Hi and welcome to our EPI family. If you don't mind, I have a few questions to kind of rule things out and offer suggestions. Have you looked to see if there are any mouth sores? Are you incubating the enzymes with food before serving? If so, for how long? As Jill mentioned, if none of the above is the issue, you could try putting them in empty gel caps or depending on how much enzymes you're using put in a glob of cream cheese that you mix put on top of the kibble.

As for the enzyme expense, you might want to check out EnzymeDiane - her enzymes are A LOT less expensive than the vet enzymes, shipped directly to your home and no prescription needed.

With regard to weight gain: there are four cornerstones to properly managing EPI: enzymes (discussed already except the dose is 1tsp per cup of kibble); B12 (EPI dogs need their B12 on the higher side of normal 600+ - you can either follow the shot protocol or use the WonderLabs Pet Factor pills); Antibiotics (if dealing with SID [small intestinal dysbiosis]; and food (feed 150% of the food for the weight the dog should be until they gain the weight back; we recommend grain free with 4% fiber or less).

It might take trying a few things, but we'll get your pup on track :)
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

Ruby
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Posts: 99
Country: United States
State: Florida

Re: Hates the taste!

Post by Ruby » 23 Jul 2019, 22:57

You can try using Creon 10,000 order from Chemist Warehouse look on line. You don't need a prescription. Don't open the capsule just place it in your hand with a little water to help you dog pick it up with its tongue. I do this all the time and it works great. No flavor for them to taste and run away from. I give my dog 2 3/4 cups of dog food and (2) Creon 10,000 at every meal. Maybe this will work for you and the cost is cheaper than buying them locally.

liz
Member
Posts: 4
Country: United States
State: Virginia
Pet name: Jesse

Re: Hates the taste!

Post by liz » 24 Jul 2019, 08:13

Thanks everyone. I have ordered from EnzymeDiane and I'm currently waiting for the shipment. The baby food and enzyme mixture (I let that sit for 20 minutes) works fine for him - I was just wondering what others did. The baby food seems to be making him very thirsty - there are 20 mg of sodium in the baby food which seems ridiculous - so the other day my vet suggested cooking up some chicken livers and trying that with some water and enzymes. Just tried that this morning and he only ate half of it so I think I'll go back to the baby food for now.
As far as a gel capsule, I kind of know that my very picky, suspicious Maltese will not just take the capsule!!! You know how you know your fur baby as well as you do your children?? It sounds really good and easy but......
I also have been giving him a B12 shot every Friday. He has to have those for 6 weeks (last one will be this Friday) and then in 4 weeks he'll be tested again. I have to say his personality is back to the feisty little devil he was!

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Hates the taste!

Post by jilbert57 » 24 Jul 2019, 09:00

Sometimes you just have to keep tweaking things until its right.
Find a limited ingredient canned dog food(I use one that has beef, water, guar gum). Take a spoon and dig out portions you can mash and incubate the enzymes in. Freeze the individual portions out and thaw out and warm before incubating. Pour over food before eating. You should be able to get quite a few portions for a small dog. Just a thought.
Sometimes people just have to conjure a good sense of humor to not get frustrated!
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Patsy
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Posts: 266
Country: United Kingdom - England

Re: Hates the taste!

Post by Patsy » 24 Jul 2019, 18:32

You’ve done really well to get a fifty percent weight gain so far. You’re doing something right!
I have a non epi dog that weighs 10 lbs. she eats less than some cats, and her mouth is tiny. I understand the issue with capsules, every time would be a bigger problem. My epi dog, a spaniel refused plain enzymes. She gave in with a topping of fishy cat food, or canned fish. Some folks use soft cheese or yogurt. Something I wish I’d tried is tomato ketchup, because apparently spot washing with it can destroy the smell of badger or fox poo when they roll in it, so maybe it’s worth an experiment.
Springer spaniel Marti had Epi, PLE , MMM just to confuse me. She lived till 12yrs, chubby and happy despite eight years of epi.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.

liz
Member
Posts: 4
Country: United States
State: Virginia
Pet name: Jesse

Re: Hates the taste!

Post by liz » 25 Jul 2019, 16:28

Thanks for all the thoughts about this problem. Question - have you ever heard of a dog reversing and the pancreas starts working again?

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Patsy
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Posts: 266
Country: United Kingdom - England

Re: Hates the taste!

Post by Patsy » 25 Jul 2019, 16:51

No. The pancreas necrotised, ie rots, By the time dogs are diagnosed, it’s a mess. And there are pictures elsewhere on the website.
Springer spaniel Marti had Epi, PLE , MMM just to confuse me. She lived till 12yrs, chubby and happy despite eight years of epi.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.

liz
Member
Posts: 4
Country: United States
State: Virginia
Pet name: Jesse

Re: Hates the taste!

Post by liz » 27 Jul 2019, 17:03

What does everyone think about a couple of tablespoons of pumpkin twice a day mixed with the powder? There's virtually no sodium and it seems to be good for diarrhea AND constipation......

Btw, Jesse is thriving. So good to see him back to normal. And the EnzymeDiane package came, I've been giving it to him and all is well. Bye bye, expensive Viokase!

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