new member BMDmom with Zuey

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
BMDmom

new member BMDmom with Zuey

Post by BMDmom » 31 Jul 2019, 14:56

Zuey (Zuzu's Petals) is a nearly 11 year old Bernese Mountain Dog. We have been dealing with EPI for almost 5 years. She never had extreme weight loss but presented with constant diarrhea and ultrasound showed an inflamed section of the small bowel. B-12 and pancreatic enzymes were low.
Initially she did pretty well with B-12 and an OTC pancreatic supplement (Pancreatin 1300 by SolaRay). Within the last several months the supplement seemed to become ineffective so she was started on Viokase-V, based on her vet's advice as well as info in a home veterinary manual. It took quite awhile but seemed I finally got the dose regulated and we had about 1 week of near-normal stools. By then I was nearly out of the enzyme so I switched her to PancrePlus, which is about half the price of Viokase though still relatively expensive. The products seem equal in terms of the amount of enzyme so I kept the dose the same at 1 teaspoon per about 1 1/4 cup kibble. It's been about 2 weeks and her stools are extremely soft if not liquid. I'm not sure what to do next and would appreciate some ideas.
Zuey is about 62 pounds (she is small for a Bernese).
She eats Natural Balance venison and sweet potato LID, has been on this food for about 5 years.
Thanks for being there and listening!
BMD mom in Utah USA

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: new member BMDmom with Zuey

Post by Jean » 31 Jul 2019, 15:26

we are always listening and welcome from the UK

ok, any b12 supplement ?

as they get older sometimes they need more enzymes

as to expense, you might want to look at Enzyme Diane

https://enzymediane.com/

is usually 1 flat teaspoon per US cup of kibble,

AND incubated with a small amout of warm water,over 30 minutes

she is small for a Bermese, but small is beautiful, can we have pics

PLEASE ASK AWAY
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

BMDmom

Re: new member BMDmom with Zuey

Post by BMDmom » 31 Jul 2019, 16:53

yes, she is on B-12. I am using a teaspoon of the enzyme and I do incubate with warm water in the food for about 30 minutes. To her dismay she does not get between meal treats so her food intake is pretty well regulated.
I did add slippery elm about a month ago, after she had 2 episodes of bright yellow diarrhea. I am sprinkling a capsule on each meal but wonder if that should be a forever thing or short-term.

Tuckaboo Pam
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Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: new member BMDmom with Zuey

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 31 Jul 2019, 18:20

This is Pam, Tucker's person, and I've only been here for two weeks. Tucker is being treated for EPI, though he hasn't yet been tested for it. We started his Tylan, B12, and enzyme supplementation about three months ago. Even though I'm new, something you said made me feel like sharing. From advice I've gotten here in this forum, I have switched Tucker to kibble that is 4% fiber, and I'd say he is doing better. Sweet potatoes have a lot of fiber, so I would suggest checking the bag to see if it's 4% or lower. Just an idea. Best of Luck.
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

BMDmom

Re: new member BMDmom with Zuey

Post by BMDmom » 01 Aug 2019, 13:26

thanks, Pam. I think the food is 4% fiber. I have tried a couple of times to switch foods, and even doing it very gradually things have not gone well so I have gone back to this food.

Barb
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Posts: 918
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: new member BMDmom with Zuey

Post by Barb » 01 Aug 2019, 13:50

Hello and welcome It is frustrating when they have setbacks after doing well for a long time. I am dealing with one myself, so I know how you feel.

I did not see anything in your post about an antibiotic...unless I missed it. She could be dealing with SID(formerly SIBO) and might need a protocol of mild anti (tylan) to get rid of the bacteria.

I also endorse Enzyme Diane's enzymes for Pancreatin at a reasonable cost. We usually suggest 1 tsp. per cup, so you might increase her enzymes just a bit to come up to that ratio. Remember to make only one change at a time so you know what is affecting resulting poos

Hang in there. Let us know how she does.

Barb

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Arya&Bran
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Posts: 11
Location: San Bernardino
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Arya
My name: Christine

Re: new member BMDmom with Zuey

Post by Arya&Bran » 01 Aug 2019, 22:27

Hello and welcome from California!
My little girl, ARYA was on PancrePlus and yes it worked fine but is was a bit pricey. Thanks to this forum, I learned about Enzyme Diane and we are forever grateful. We have learned many things about EPI here. One most important thing is, No two EPI dogs are the same or respond to the same protocols. My Arya gets her Intrinsic B-12 capsules from WonderLabs.(Again, this was thanks to this forum) It was easier for us than taking her to the vet for B-12 injections. What type of B-12 is Zuey getting?
Hang in there, and again welcome! :D
Arya & Brandon born March 17, 2013. Lab/Shepherd/ Border Collie mix.
Arya gets 1/4 can of Blue Buffalo. Be sure there are no peas in the food. Backyard BBQ, & Denali Dinner are some of the foods. Be sure the food is warm, but NOT HOT, as it will kill the enzymes. We mix 2 1/2 teaspoons EnzymesDiane powder into her food(including the kibble), Blue Buffalo Life Protection Formula, 2 cups(Chicken & Brown Rice). We incubate food for 30 minutes.After the incubation period add, 2 Metamucil capsules(broken open & sprinkled on food)& Rx vitamins for pets probiotic. We add The WonderLabs B12 & Slippery Elm at dinner only. Again, we agree that no two EPI pets are the same.

BMDmom

Re: new member BMDmom with Zuey

Post by BMDmom » 03 Aug 2019, 11:52

update on Zuey:
I just ordered from emzymes diane and will keep using what I have in the meantime. I did increase the dose slightly to a little more than a level teaspoon. Poops went from very runny to formed but soft stool, for about a day, and this morning it was back to runny with a few small chunks in it. At this point I am not sure if I should keep titrating the enzymes up slowly.
She is getting B-12 injection (Cyanobalamin) once a month and has been for about 4 years.
I did treat with Tylan for a month in the past but it did not seem to make a difference. Perhaps it is time to try antibiotic treatment again.
When she reverts to liquid stool my best management tool has been to have her skip a meal so she fasts for 24 hours to rest the gut. We are doing that more often lately so I'm not sure that trick is working as well as it used to.
The biggest management problem for me is this is a dog who has a very subtle way of telling me she needs to go outside and poop so needless to say I don't wake at night until she has already pooped. For various reasons a dog door is not an option for me, but obviously this pattern is very tiresome.
It's probably time to go see the vet again. I'm also wondering if the Hill's prescription dog food might be a good choice for her. Any input on that?
I do appreciate everyone's suggestions and caring help.
Vicky

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2090
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: new member BMDmom with Zuey

Post by jilbert57 » 03 Aug 2019, 12:55

I would think of adding these in to your daily routine:

https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688

Maybe once a month is too long for her to go.what is current food
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

BMDmom

Re: new member BMDmom with Zuey

Post by BMDmom » 03 Aug 2019, 13:19

I have asked my vet in the past about oral B-12. He has always said that it does not have the bioavailability of B-12 injections, but it might not hurt to try adding this supplement. I don't notice an improvement in her in the 1-2 weeks after I give the shot, or a worsening in the last 2 weeks before the next shot, so I don't know if that is significant.
Her food now is Natural Balance venison and sweet potato LID. She has been on that about 5 years and I have tried a slow switch to different foods but that did not go well, so I am not sure if the problem is the food or the amount of enzyme.

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