B-12

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Lucky
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Posts: 7
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Lucky

B-12

Post by Lucky » 21 Aug 2019, 09:10

I've never bothered spending the money to test our dog's B12 levels. I've just given him the shots and he seems to do just fine, but don't know if that isn't something you would know without blood work. Your website talks about two different B12 pills from wonderlabs. Which one should a dog take and how do you decide which or are they supposed to take both if not doing the shots?

Knowing that I've never tested his B12 levels, I wonder if that could be a cause of his brittle nails issue that we have.

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TerryBin
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Posts: 25
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: B-12

Post by TerryBin » 26 Aug 2019, 08:44

I know the testing can be expensive but if you can swing it I would recommend doing the B12 testing. On one hand if they get too much B12 they pee it out...but even if you are supplementing it could still be too low. Don't know about the brittle nails being a side effect. We give the shots weekly so can't answer questions about the pills.
3 Shiloh Shepherd Pups!
Taiko was born 6 September 2006 and had EPI; she passed over the Rainbow Bridge 10 april 2019 NOT EPI-related.
Pharaoh born 24 November 2007 and has EPI.
Moku born 15 April 2014 and was dx with EPI in January 2019.
Hoshi born 6 July 2019 and does not have EPI
Taiko and Pharaoh were half siblings through their sire; their sire is Moku's grandfather through his Mom. Moku and Hoshi have the same sire.
Pharaoh and Moku use PancreaPlus tablets and receive weekly B12 shots at home.

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Miss Maddie Moo
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Country: United Kingdom - England

Re: B-12

Post by Miss Maddie Moo » 26 Aug 2019, 09:14

https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688

Here is the link to the B12 we suggest that you use.
How often do you do the shots Maddie would only maintain if the shots were done weekly hence i opted to give the tablets daily...i wasn't good at doing the shots.
Malabsorption can give rise to brittle nails but they can be other reasons why, we do tend to blame epi for everything but sometimes there are other causes if she has gained all he weight back and is thriving then may be it is another condition causing this.

Ann
Maddie DX April 2011 along with low B12 she was feed with a low fibre food below 3% , fat was not restricted ( she wasnt good on pea based foods ) She initially had a course of B12 shots weekly over a period of 6 months and then we used the B12 pills from Chemeyes in the UK . We used Panzym and slowly had to increase the dose as she aged when she was first DX she was 23kg but she gained weight quickly and got back to 33 kg .
Maddie gained her angel wings in Jan 2018 at the age of 10 to a condition unrelated to EPI.
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Lucky
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Posts: 7
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Lucky

Re: B-12

Post by Lucky » 03 Sep 2019, 18:00

Thanks for the replies. I don't mind giving the shots, super easy, was doing twice a month. Weight-wise, he is definitely not starving, maybe a few pounds too fluffy. I take it if they are a healthy weight, then they shouldn't be B12 insufficient and what you are doing is working? It costs like $150 to test B12... I looked at those pills more closely, they are much more expensive than the shots.

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Jean
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Posts: 675
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: B-12

Post by Jean » 03 Sep 2019, 19:45

blimee how much are you paying for shots
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: B-12

Post by Madelon » 03 Sep 2019, 20:55

In my opinion, if your dog is doing well with the current shot protocol I wouldn't change what you are doing. Symptoms of low B12 are loss of appetite, weight loss, lethargy, change in personality/mood (cranky, aggressive), loose stools, vomiting. If you are not seeing any of these signs then I would not spend the money to get the B12 tested. I had Doc's retested once after we started treatment just to be sure it was where it needed to be - that was 4 1/2 years ago. The WonderLabs pills are great for those that are unable to do the shots or the shots don't seem to be working but if you're giving one shot twice a month that is definitely going to be less expensive than the pills.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

Lucky
Member
Posts: 7
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Lucky

Re: B-12

Post by Lucky » 04 Sep 2019, 14:03

Madelon wrote:
03 Sep 2019, 20:55
In my opinion, if your dog is doing well with the current shot protocol I wouldn't change what you are doing. Symptoms of low B12 are loss of appetite, weight loss, lethargy, change in personality/mood (cranky, aggressive), loose stools, vomiting. If you are not seeing any of these signs then I would not spend the money to get the B12 tested. I had Doc's retested once after we started treatment just to be sure it was where it needed to be - that was 4 1/2 years ago. The WonderLabs pills are great for those that are unable to do the shots or the shots don't seem to be working but if you're giving one shot twice a month that is definitely going to be less expensive than the pills.
Thanks! Yeah, definitely not any of those symptoms. He has too much energy if anything. I'll stick with the shots.

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