Housebreaking and EPI

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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minniemac

Housebreaking and EPI

Post by minniemac » 27 Aug 2019, 20:25

Just adopted a year old rescue with EPI. She is not housebroken. Would EPI cause her to eliminate and defecate more frequently?
She obviously has not been trained, but I want to to know if EPI has some role in this.

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Madelon
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Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Housebreaking and EPI

Post by Madelon » 27 Aug 2019, 23:02

Hi and welcome to our EPI family! First and foremost thank you SO much for adopting an EPI pup. They are such special dogs and most of us can tell you, for some reason the bond with these dogs is greater than any other. In a short answer, yes, EPI and it's treatment can cause them to urinate and defecate more. A lot of our dogs tend to pee more in the beginning of EPI treatment, whether from the enzymes or the B12. Also, prior to diagnosis and for a short term after (if using antibiotics) they can poop more because they are dealing with SID (small intestinal dysbiosis) which causes loose stools/diarrhea. There are four cornerstones to managing EPI: Enzymes (most of us use EnzymeDiane - much less expensive than the vet prescription enzymes; recommended starting dose is 1tsp per cup of kibble, mix in luke warm water, mix in kibble and sit 20-30 minutes before serving); B12 (EPI dogs need B12 on the high side of normal 600+ - a lot of us use WonderLabs Pet Factor B12 pills); Antibiotics (if dealing with uncontrollable SID [small intestinal dysbiosis] we recommend Tylan for 45 days and then slowly wean off); Food (we recommend 4% fiber or less and grain free - try to avoid or limit peas, legumes and chicken). Keep a detailed log of everything you give and everything that comes out so you know what works and what doesn't.

EPI seems overwhelming in the beginning but it's completely manageable and affordable. We are all here to help guide you along the way so please don't ever feel like you are alone in this.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Housebreaking and EPI

Post by jilbert57 » 28 Aug 2019, 09:07

Hi and welcome. Thank you for adopting a dog with Epi.

Were they managing the Epi when you adopted her as far as what Madelon mentioned(diet, enzyme, antibiotics or B12)?

Madelon has given you great information. Ask any questions!
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

Barb
Staff
Posts: 918
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Housebreaking and EPI

Post by Barb » 28 Aug 2019, 14:03

Hello and welcome to the Forum. You have received great advice already. I just want to say thank you so much for adopting a pup with EPI. She is very lucky to have landed with you.

Our German Shepherd, Kolby, was 1 when he was diagnosed, so he had already been housebroken....we got him at 9 weeks. When he developed EPI aaround his first birthday, we definitely saw an increase in his urination. He had several accidents in the house (peeing) which had never happened before. After he was on the enzymes for a while, this symptom went away and never returned. Since your pup was not trained when you got her, it might take a little longer to help her understand where the "potty" is, but I am sure she will get it. Just keep a good schedule of taking her out as often as possible with lots of praise until she starts to understand.

Let us know how she does.

Barb

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Sparkle Tangerine
Member
Posts: 56
Country: Canada
Pet name: Montgomery

Re: Housebreaking and EPI

Post by Sparkle Tangerine » 31 Aug 2019, 10:26

STILL working on house-breaking Montgomery. When he was so small and so sick, litter box training was hopeless. Everything stuck to him. Paper training him just created a life-long shredder of paper (really, its one of his favourite things to do). So its been a challenge. We just keep putting him in the litter box and telling him litter box. He looks like he's going to urinate - litter box. He's trying to have a bowel movement - litter box. He's just got up from a nap - litter box. He's just eaten - litter box. We've seen a great deal of improvement. He does take himself to the litter box a great deal now. Keep going. You'll get there!
Montgomery was born 21 March 2012. He is a DSH orange tabby and white. Montgomery eats RCFHN Spayed/Neutered Kitten dry food and Royal Canin Ultra Light wet food. He is a catnip junkie who loves paper bags and his stuffed mouse, Ignatz. His Pank-Aid is put into capsules each day as he gets mouth ulcers if it is mixed into his food. He gets two size zero capsules with each meal and eats six times each day. He gets .5ml Ovol twice a day for his gas. He is an enormous 3.08kg and strong enough to give his veterinarian a hard time. He is smart as a whip, has the loudest purr in the universe, and is so, so loved.

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Jean
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Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Housebreaking and EPI

Post by Jean » 31 Aug 2019, 16:16

Cats are so much easier to train than dogs, that is usually
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Sparkle Tangerine
Member
Posts: 56
Country: Canada
Pet name: Montgomery

Re: Housebreaking and EPI

Post by Sparkle Tangerine » 31 Aug 2019, 17:18

Yeah, usually by six weeks my foster kittens are pros at the litter box. Montgomery will be eight in March! Oh, well. Better every day, right? He's only had two accidents to-day, so that's pretty awesome.
Montgomery was born 21 March 2012. He is a DSH orange tabby and white. Montgomery eats RCFHN Spayed/Neutered Kitten dry food and Royal Canin Ultra Light wet food. He is a catnip junkie who loves paper bags and his stuffed mouse, Ignatz. His Pank-Aid is put into capsules each day as he gets mouth ulcers if it is mixed into his food. He gets two size zero capsules with each meal and eats six times each day. He gets .5ml Ovol twice a day for his gas. He is an enormous 3.08kg and strong enough to give his veterinarian a hard time. He is smart as a whip, has the loudest purr in the universe, and is so, so loved.

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Housebreaking and EPI

Post by Jean » 31 Aug 2019, 19:30

have you tried catnip in the box, or near it
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Sparkle Tangerine
Member
Posts: 56
Country: Canada
Pet name: Montgomery

Re: Housebreaking and EPI

Post by Sparkle Tangerine » 02 Sep 2019, 14:07

Catnip, Cat Attract, different kitty litters, different litter boxes in different locations. The thing that seems to be slowly working is repetition. We just keep sticking him in the litter box! Ah, the house is Montgomery-proofed, so his little misdemeanors are easily cleaned up. Its not like before he was diagnosed when it looked like someone set off a poop-bomb. We're getting there!
Montgomery was born 21 March 2012. He is a DSH orange tabby and white. Montgomery eats RCFHN Spayed/Neutered Kitten dry food and Royal Canin Ultra Light wet food. He is a catnip junkie who loves paper bags and his stuffed mouse, Ignatz. His Pank-Aid is put into capsules each day as he gets mouth ulcers if it is mixed into his food. He gets two size zero capsules with each meal and eats six times each day. He gets .5ml Ovol twice a day for his gas. He is an enormous 3.08kg and strong enough to give his veterinarian a hard time. He is smart as a whip, has the loudest purr in the universe, and is so, so loved.

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Housebreaking and EPI

Post by Jean » 02 Sep 2019, 16:29

God love him you are a great cat Mom
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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