Negative EPI

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Mspin17
Member
Posts: 4
Country: United States
Pet name: Jager

Negative EPI

Post by Mspin17 » 04 Sep 2019, 02:44

Hi all,
I was looking for a little guidance advice.

Has anyone started there GSD on enzyme supplements despite negative EPI testing ? The symptoms are very much EPI and I was confident in it being the factor. I question false negative, and to start a short course to see if anything improves.
(He was fasting for the test). From the research I have done the enzyme itself without a definitive EPI diagnosis is harmless.

Some back story: 2 year old GSD he has great energy however uninterested in food, intermittent diarrhea , new foods often trigger diarrhea episodes, and lots of tummy rumbling. (Symptoms to some degree over the past year) Differential would be colitis/IBD however I strongly don’t feel this to be the case as he has no other associated symptoms with a colitis. ( has been tx with flagyl). IBS / SIBO or allergies is another thought.

Just thought starting the supplement may be a good test.

Had an US few months back for another concern and unremarkable.

Thoughts?

-Maria

User avatar
Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Negative EPI

Post by Jean » 04 Sep 2019, 08:22

hi there

firstly I would need rto knmow the results from the test, and was it 8-12 hours food fasted
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Mspin17
Member
Posts: 4
Country: United States
Pet name: Jager

Re: Negative EPI

Post by Mspin17 » 04 Sep 2019, 08:58

Thanks Jean, I don’t have the exact number just was told yesterday it was negative. I have asked for the results to be faxed to me.

Yes, it was a 12 hour fast test.

Maria.

Mspin17
Member
Posts: 4
Country: United States
Pet name: Jager

Re: Negative EPI

Post by Mspin17 » 04 Sep 2019, 09:27

They got back to me

TLI = 11.5 (normal)
Folate 13.9 (high)
B12=555 (normal)
Potential differential of SIBO

User avatar
jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Negative EPI

Post by jilbert57 » 04 Sep 2019, 10:16

With a normal Tli I would hesitate to keep him on porcine enzymes for too long.

Since your dogs pancreas is functioning properly I would try a plant base(total zymes, prozyme) enzyme incubated like porcine and run a course of Tylan for 45 days to see if you can get rid of SIBO.

Just a thought.
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

User avatar
Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Negative EPI

Post by Jean » 04 Sep 2019, 12:51

I would agree with the idea of Tylan for 45 days

and giving Pancreatic enzymes long term are not necessary

it looks like SIBO (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth) and Tylan should deal with this

I tried Ranitidine 75 mg 30 mins before food, it coats the gut
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Mspin17
Member
Posts: 4
Country: United States
Pet name: Jager

Re: Negative EPI

Post by Mspin17 » 04 Sep 2019, 13:10

These are great ideas thank you all! My vet kind of left us in the dark

-Maria

User avatar
Madelon
Staff
Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Negative EPI

Post by Madelon » 05 Sep 2019, 13:00

Hi and welcome to our EPI family! First thing that sticks out is the possible SIBO - now called SID (small intestinal dysbiosis) - GSD are prone to this. We recommend a 45 day course of Tylan and then slowly wean off - most vets will recommend metronidazole but research has shown Tylan to be more effective and it does not kill ALL the bacteria in the gut the way Metro will and does not have the possible harsh side effects that Metro has.

With a TLI of 11 your dog does not have EPI, HOWEVER, please keep an eye on the symptoms - if you treat with antibiotics and symptoms clear up but then come back please consider retesting. My dog was tested at 3mos old because of symptoms and his TLI was 16 - after antibiotics to treat SID he gained weight and was fine for several months, however at 10mos old he was tested again because of symptoms and his TLI was less than .4!!

So, for now, I would try either treating with antibiotics or Slippery Elm Bark Powder. If the symptoms come back after a while I would consider testing again. You could always try plant based enzymes in the mean time.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1346
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Negative EPI

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 07 Sep 2019, 06:45

I have a related question, if that works out here---my vet says we have proven, by treating Tucker with enzymes, tylan, and B12, that he indeed has EPI, and he discourages me from spending money on a test. He first treated him with a strong antibiotic and probiotics, to rule out a couple of other things before we started the enzymes. He listened carefully to my documentation of events before advising me to give enzymes, and I really trust him. Additionally, I recently ordered a new bag of enzymes, and his poo turned yellow & softer, but when Diane sent me a bag from another batch he returned to normal. My question is---is there something horrible that could be festering in him, masked by the current treatment, and if so what is it? I am currently purchasing nothing from my vet for this condition, and he continues to help me. I am torn. ---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

User avatar
jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Negative EPI

Post by jilbert57 » 07 Sep 2019, 09:49

Hi Pam, those 3 things helped Mickey also and he had chronic pancreatitis.

The Tli I added on to senior panel and it was $150.00.

It will have to be your decision whether you run the test

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 37 guests