Older Shiloh Shepherd

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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AnubisofGuardian
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Posts: 11
Location: Yukon
Country: Canada
Pet name: Anubis
My name: Rhonnie

Re: Older Shiloh Shepherd

Post by AnubisofGuardian » 16 Sep 2019, 11:26

Anubis gets about two and a half cups of food with 3tsp of enzymes. During his evening meal I've recently included slippery elm, B12 on top of what I already put in his food: 1tsp of glucosamine, 1/2tsp of turmeric powder, enzymes and CBD oil. In my reading, a lack of B12 can lead to issues with the nervous system so I'm hoping that this will help with the tripping at least a little bit. The vet that spoke to me regarding his xrays couldn't find anything else wrong with him other than the pocket of arthritis and was at a loss to offer anything else as a diagnosis. He suggested putting my dog on a drug regiment when he started showing signs of pain but each regiment would come with side effects like sacrificing his immune system. I would rather try every other option possible before that.

The vet selected the Z/D diet because he didn't know what else to try with Anubis. At first they thought maybe it was a food allergy or something but that's been completely ruled out as a possibility. The vet's lack of knowledge about EPI is really disheartening especially since I turn to them for help. The breeder I got Anubis from has far more information on the condition than the whole vet clinic did and was the one that told me what to tell the vets to test for. It's fall up here now and it makes me terrified for when winter comes and my dog has to try and navigate the snow and ice conditions. I'm looking into a supportive harness for him for now I will see if the changes I've made make a difference for him. It's only been a couple of days but he looks a little more alert than before.

As for his food, First Mate also has a chicken and blueberry formula that's at 4% fiber. I will contact the feed store here and see if its one that they bring in regularly. Nothing worse than running out of his food with a delivery still a few days away :| Thank you everyone for your suggestions and I will keep updating as to how Anubis is doing!
Much Love and Light!

Rhonnie

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AnubisofGuardian
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Posts: 11
Location: Yukon
Country: Canada
Pet name: Anubis
My name: Rhonnie

Re: Older Shiloh Shepherd

Post by AnubisofGuardian » 17 Sep 2019, 11:35

I requested a copy of my dog's xrays from July and thought I would include one of them in my post.
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Much Love and Light!

Rhonnie

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AnubisofGuardian
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Posts: 11
Location: Yukon
Country: Canada
Pet name: Anubis
My name: Rhonnie

Re: Older Shiloh Shepherd

Post by AnubisofGuardian » 08 Oct 2019, 13:05

Update: So I'm now changing Anubis over to the First Mate Chicken with Blueberry kibble, which has 4% fiber but still plenty of carbs. Since July 26 he's gone from 52.8kg to 50.7kg and normally I try to keep him about 54 to 55kg, it's not the lowest he's ever been but it's getting close so I'm really hoping he enjoys this food change. His stools have started to finally firm up a bit but I'm doing the change slowly so not to aggravate his tummy too much. Does any one else notice how loud their dog's digestive system is? The gurgling in the belly, or the sloshing noises? Should this concern me? Also should probably point out that my dog also seems to eat his own stools and lick himself (belly and groin area) that has caused a bunch of mats I had to take the clippers to, only to reveal the beginnings of a skin rash. I suspect its a type of staff. infection as he's had those in the past before. He's also started acupuncture but it will be another couple of appointments before I will know if it's helping his tripping issues and such. He still loves to play and cuddle; he's really enjoying the snow fall we got over the weekend.
Much Love and Light!

Rhonnie

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jilbert57
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Re: Older Shiloh Shepherd

Post by jilbert57 » 08 Oct 2019, 13:19

Hi Rhonnie and thank you for the update!

Can you tell me what enzymes you are using and the ratio of enzymes to amount of food?

Also is your pup currently on an antibiotic to treat SID (Small Intestinal Disease) ?

Is your pup currently on a B12 supplement with intrinsic factor?

Sorry for the questions but it will better help us answer your questions. Thank you.

Jill
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 13, TJ is a 4 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

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AnubisofGuardian
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Location: Yukon
Country: Canada
Pet name: Anubis
My name: Rhonnie

Re: Older Shiloh Shepherd

Post by AnubisofGuardian » 08 Oct 2019, 14:18

Thanks for the response @jilbert57,
Currently the only enzymes I have access to are the ones from the vet which are the Pank-Aid brand that only come in the 4 ounce tub. He gets 3tsp for 2-1/2 to 3 cups of food. He isn't on any antibiotics at the moment but he probably will need them for the skin rash. I toss in a B12 quick dissolve tablet in his food (10,000) that I get from the drug store. When his stools are very loose I start adding a bit of slippery elm powder to help and a couple packets of the Forti-Flora stuff. The vet suggested giving him B12 shots instead of through his food, just not sure I want to spend more money in that office if other things work.
Much Love and Light!

Rhonnie

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Madelon
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Re: Older Shiloh Shepherd

Post by Madelon » 10 Oct 2019, 13:59

Hi and my apologies for not responding sooner. Love the first picture you posted - absolutely stunning!

First, with regard to the enzymes, please do check out EnzymeDiane (www.enzymediane.com) - she ships to Canada and it is much less expensive. You should have no problems switching over if that's what you decide to do - you'll want the Pancreatin 6x. I would keep the dose the same as you are using now and then try tweaking it up or down a tad to see if you can't get the poops firmed up. I'm checking with Diane because I noticed the Pank-Aid Protease and Amylase are at the bottom of the range at 280,000 USP - not sure if this makes a difference or not.

Second, with regard to B12 - have you had it tested lately? What supplements have you been using? Regular over the counter B12 may not be enough unless given in very high doses and you do NOT want to use a multi-B12 vitamin. I highly recommend using WonderLabs Pet Factor B12 - they too ship to Canada and are very inexpensive. Their pills contain Intrinsic Factor which helps in the absorption of B12.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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AnubisofGuardian
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Posts: 11
Location: Yukon
Country: Canada
Pet name: Anubis
My name: Rhonnie

Re: Older Shiloh Shepherd

Post by AnubisofGuardian » 10 Oct 2019, 14:30

I just placed an order through Diane to see how well the shipping is to me. I'm up n the Yukon Territory and sometimes shipping can be iffy even in country. I will check out the other website for the B12 stuff. The vets have to send out his blood in order to test for the B12 levels and they want to charge me $350 just to do that. He seems to be enjoying the new food, I'm only concerned about his gassiness levels. It could be simply a byproduct of a new food being introduced to him and it will resolve on its own but he sometimes seems uncomfortable at night. Is there something I can give him for it? Or is it something I need to be discussing with the vet? Thanks for all the help!!
Much Love and Light!

Rhonnie

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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
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Pet name: Doc

Re: Older Shiloh Shepherd

Post by Madelon » 10 Oct 2019, 14:34

Ahhhh so there's a lot of gas? Are you hearing tummy rumblings too? You might be dealing with a really bad case of SID and the low B12. Try using Slippery Elm Bark Powder - powder not pills - you can get it from a health food store or online from WonderLabs or Amazon (NOW brand). Here's a link to our page with dosing instructions - be sure to mix with a little water and then put on top of the food https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/. If that doesn't help then you might need a round of Tylan antibiotics.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

Barb
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Re: Older Shiloh Shepherd

Post by Barb » 10 Oct 2019, 15:35

Glad you are getting Diane's enzymes. We had no trouble switching over many years ago.....and Kolby was sensitive to everything. Also, I agree with Madelong about the Wonderlabs B12 capsules.(Pet Factor) We have been using them for years and Kolby has done well on them.

How are his back legs? Is he still tripping?

Barb

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AnubisofGuardian
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Posts: 11
Location: Yukon
Country: Canada
Pet name: Anubis
My name: Rhonnie

Re: Older Shiloh Shepherd

Post by AnubisofGuardian » 10 Oct 2019, 16:01

I hear lots of digestive noises, his belly and intestines seem to swell with how much gas is in them. The vet's have taken xrays of that before and at first thought he had an obstruction but couldn't find anything, turns out it was all gas. I have slippery elm powder but I guess I hadn't been giving him the right dose, I will adjust that this evening. He's had so many pills in the last couple of years that he's taken to throwing them up within about ten minutes of me having to cram them down his throat. He's really not a food motivated dog at all, never was. Liquid or injections would be best if he has to take anymore antibiotics.
He's still tripping but it doesn't seem to be as bad after a couple of acupuncture appointments. There's nothing wrong with knees or his hips, the problem seems to be with the narrowing of his lumbar vertebra. He was never the most graceful dog but I don't want him to accidentally hurt himself. I've even had to trim the end of his tail fur just to make sure he didn't step on it anymore. Come to think of it, he's always had a small hitch in his gait... maybe it's just become more pronounced as he gets older. I think its more likely ligaments or tendons that causes one hind leg to twist slightly inwards between steps. Some days I wish I had decided to become a vet... LOL
Much Love and Light!

Rhonnie

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