EPI /diabetes complication?

[Patsy]

Hello from Yorkshire, you’re in the right place here for help. We’ve all had dogs with strange symptoms. Marti, my springer , had problems, but once the enzymes were in place, the imbalances in her other organs levelled out. I’m not sure whether the the high glucose will, if she hasn’t any insulin. I’m type 2, and know how the ups and downs happen. Diet is everything, unless on medication. I avoid carbs like rice.
You do not need to buy enzymes from a vet. They will overcharge you. Chemeyes sell direct online, and the ones vets usually stick to , panzym powder, and Lypex capsules are available online from VetUk.
Can’t they keep Minnie in the daytime, when they can check her before and after each meal? The change in poo will be obvious.

Uk vets have very little experience of epi.
I’m a hardened dog owner now, and realise that inexperienced vets sometimes get things wrong, and large practises with vets you don’t see twice, don’t seem to leave good notes for each other, and don’t get to know the quirks of your pets’ health. Always remember that you are paying them, they aren’t doing you a favour.
Food..with enzymes, you don’t have to worry about fats. Fats will provide the calories and energy you need , which won’t be allowed in the carbs.
Forthglade is loaded with 20% peas. I use Butchers for my non-epi dogs, but I wouldn’t have given it long term to Marti, though at first she would only eat Chappy. Like most epi dogs, chicken, peas rice, and all grains were no good. I settled on Millie’s Wolfheart, again online only, lots of choice. Kibble can be moistened to be more tasty. You can phone them for help, they are very knowledgable on ingredients.
If I had my time again with Marti, I would feed raw, the frozen, solid packs by Durham animal feeds, in most pet food shops, and a very wide selection online. Add your own veg.
Unlike our USA friends, our enzymes must not be left to stand in the food, they work immediately to digest food. Leave it half an hour and the food smells like sick!
Lastly, have you got antibiotics and B12 injections ?
Sorry this is so long. Good luck, and let us know how things go.

[Olesia711]

Hi Eden,

Just wanted to let you know that i am emailing you privately with a Diet suitable for both EPI + Diabetes.... please have your vet review it first before giving, althou, here in the USA every time i worked one of these diets the pet owners vet felt it was a good diet and agreed to put the dog on it.... and it appears to work well. Of course this is no guarantee that it will work for Minnie, but if your vet agrees, well worth trying.

[Madelon]

Hi Eden

I'm so sorry you are dealing with so much. You are in great hands with Olesia as she is the best one to address diabetes and EPI. The one thing I do know is that she always says to treat the other condition first. Please keep us posted on how things go.

[Olesia711]

Eden
Sorry to hear about her blood sugar .. but glad to hear that the vet wants her at the office so they can watch her and manage it.

I hope you got the diet i emailed you in time to discuss with the vet. PLEASE keep us posted.

Just a FYI... with EPI + Diabetes..... please let your vet know that it can be more difficult to manage then just dealing with Diabetes, and the goal is not to keep the blood sugar in the 100's (but if you can, that is AWESOME) but don't count on it... With a combo of EPI + Diabetes, the goal is to keep the blood sugar under 250.... . If you can manage tis via insulin and food (and trust me, the food can make a HUGE difference... i tested every single food ingredient (LONGGG process) and found some very interesting things. It is amazing how different food from different sources can have a huge impact on blood sugar... as can things you don't think of, like tick and flea medicines, stomach acid meds, and minor infections... OMG.... blood sugar can spike real crazy high from just a minor infection....

[Patsy]

A quick word about differences with the other side of the Atlantic! As well as NOT soaking our enzymed food, we also use different number systems in diabetes scores. Do get the vet to explain. All our measurements for everything are metric, whereas US is not, for most things.

[Eden66]

Thanks Patsy ,

Yes i heard from the Vet this morning to say she has started Minnie on the insulin and i have to learn how to give injections (gulp) not that i'm squeamish or anything it's just that it's new to me .
I will do as you suggest and try to ask the Vet for the readings so i can include things here - and also the different measurements etc .

They have got the Chemeyes High Strength Pancreatic Powder and started her on that on ID food with cooked chicken which she said Minnie is eating so i hope that will see some benefits soon , but of course the complication is the diabetic low fat food .
The other thing i was surprised about , was you mentioned the difference in enzyme powder not needing to be soak for as long on the food - which is different to most i had read /seen online , and i see that the Chemeyes site detail also says no need to leave it to stand .( the Vet said it smells awful as usual , presumably because it's been left ?)
https://www.chemeyes.co.uk/product/high ... -powder-2/

Thanks again for your help and advice , what a wonderful and helpful group this is ...i just wish i'd known about EPI with Minnie before as i could have helped her sooner .
*Oh - about raw food , i found a supplier of frozen pancreas which arrived super quick this morning .They told me to liquidize some in a blender for adding to food - i'll just ask any readers for -
a/should i get some in to her ASAP and if so how ? ( with the powder enzymes in the same meal or seperately )
b/ or hold off from giving it for the time being ?

Thanks all again
Eden

[Eden66]

Hi ,

I just wanted to say thanks to all - Jill , Patsy , Madelon and of course Olesia for her wonderful advice on the diabetes /EPI complication , and repeating what i said previously , what a wonderful group you are providing newcomers to this issue like me with much needed advice , tips and reassurances .
I'll post further updates with Minnie as we have them and see how things go - if i can get Minnie's test readings/ results from the Vet i will post them also .

Thanks again

Eden

[Patsy]

The enzymes are smelly. Marti refused them , so I tried topping her food with tuna. Eventually, after hand feeding her, I changed to capsules, no smell. Chemeyes sell them, and Vetuk’s pancreatic Nutrient . Lypex is good but too expensive. Stick to Chemeyes because they are epi owners on this website, and will advise on the phone. You can get the right B12 capsules too, when the vet has given injections if necessary.
I hope you found our reference pages for everything. On the home page is a drop down menu from the tiny blue lies o the top right!
I can’t help on using raw pancreas, I don’t know how to calculate it, but there are members who do use it if you start another thread with with it as a title. Apart from my OH not wanting it in the freezer, i felt I would want Marti stable on a steady dose before experimenting. Too much enzyme can cause diarrhoea too.
I hope you are getting your head round all this. In a while it will be routine!

[Eden66]

Hello all ,
I'm duplicating this message into this thread at Olesia's suggestion , so as to keep context and for others who may be following our progress with Minnie .

Hi Olesia ,

Thank you sooo much for your wonderful help and advice and especially for kindly taking the time with this recipe advice .
After a worrying and restless night i have heard from the Vet this morning to say that Minnie "is fine and doing well" to quote her , and that she is eating the ID food with chicken that they are feeding her and she has been on insulin which has brought her level down to normal .
I'm afraid i don't yet have any progression of figures from her tests yet , except to say that the Vet mentioned her glucose reading was "24" at the time of her test last week and "18" when she went in yesterday .
As Patsy commented on the forum about the differences with UK to US measurements - i'm not sure what these levels will mean to you but i will attempt to show the forum posts to the Vet , along with your diet/supplement suggestion for her to consider .

The vet said the idea is for me to bring Minnie home this evening and i have to be taught how to give insulin shots which is concerning me as it's totally a new thing for me -( if you have any thoughts and advice on that procedure i'd be very grateful ) and then if everything stays ok with her to bring her back in 10 days time for another day's stay when this Vet is next on an overnight stay.

One other thing that i wonder if you have any thoughts on - the Vet is using High Strength Pancreatic Enzyme powder from Chemeyes -
https://www.chemeyes.co.uk/product/high ... -powder-2/

while Minnie is in the Vet's i had a delivery today of some frozen pork pancreas from a supplier here and i just wonder if this can be given in addition to the enzyme powder ( ie in the same meal) or seperately or perhaps not at all at the moment ?
I mean , i got some because i know lots of people saying it is really beneficial to their dog and i want to get some goodness into her - any thoughts ?

Thanks again Olesia , i hope it is ok to reply to your email with this rather than the forum ...but perhaps i should duplicate it there for others to follow ?

Kind regards
Eden

[Eden66]

Hi all ,

Latest quick update with Minnie

We brought her home from the Vet yesterday evening , where under supervision i learned to give my first insulin injection !
Minnie is home now and for moment on a regular meals of Prescription Digestive care canned food mixed with some boiled chicken and of course her Chemeyes enzymes ...and so far (fingers crossed) she is eating all up .
Besides the enzymes for her EPI i am directed to give insulin twice daily and also give a course of Metrobactin antibiotic twice daily - the Vet wishes to have her back in for repeat checks in a week or so.

Obviously hoping things progress to plan , although obviously with Minnie , it is still one day at a time - but one piece of positive news to proudly report is that by early this morning she produced what i can only describe as the first "normal" poo that i have ever seen from Minnie in all the time i have had her .
Subsequent stools appear to be keeping ( again fingers crossed) much darker , and drier i just wonder if i have to watch out for any slight constipation issues as the few times i have now observed she is taking longer to pass ?
Just a thought .
Anyway i will keep the thread notified of how she progresses with further updates .

Much thanks again

Eden