Can't seem to get it right

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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troysmom
Member
Posts: 2
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Molly
My name: Kim

Can't seem to get it right

Post by troysmom » 16 Sep 2019, 19:49

Hello all. My Molly was diagnosed in July of this year. She was fine until I noticed that the end of May her poop was different. End of June, I noticed her weight loss and she had a day where she was lethargic. Took her to an emergency vet who gave us a 7 day course of metronidazole, fluids, and recommended follow up with regular vet (she said the testing would be less at the regular vet). She seemed to do a little better so I put it off until she lost more weight so I took her in and her b-12 was really low and positive test for EPI. Her stool was negative for parasites at that time. She normally weighed 71 pounds and got down to 56 pounds. We started on weekly B-12, enzymes, another course of metronidazole, changed dog food and they recommended Fortiflora but I held off on it and was going to try raw goat milk instead (was feeling very overwhelmed). Unfortunately, the vet was giving too low of a dose of the b-12 and enzymes. Switched vets and started her on Fortiflora. Sorry for so much information, by the way. For the last almost 6 weeks, she has been on the following regimen:
2 cups 3 times a day Canidae all stages multi protein (4% fiber, 14% fat)
2 tabs Pancreplus tablets with each meal
1/4 teaspoon tylosin with morning and evening meal (she is just about to complete a 45 day course)
2 packets Fortiflora with middle meal
B-12 1000-1500mcg injection once a week, dropping to every other week starting 9/23

I have only had about 10 days all together of formed stool. It is always light brown in color. She was originally stooling more than 5 times a day but now its only 2 but back to patties. Of note, I had about 3-4 days where I decreased her enzymes because I was running low and waiting for my order (didn't know about supplementing with one's from the Vitamin Shoppe). I also was running low on Fortiflora so for a few days I dropped to one packet. She also during this time missed a dose of tylosin.

Any suggestions on what to do? She doesn't seem to be dropping weight but isn't really gaining. After the new vet changed the doses to more appropriate she got up to 60 pounds. I give her the tablets whole in her food but I've read that some crush it. If it is crushed, do I incubate it?

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Can't seem to get it right

Post by Olesia711 » 16 Sep 2019, 20:02

What jumps out at me is that you are using much too low of a dose of enzymes.
We normally recommend porcine enzyme powder.... as the pills often don't work well, however, there are some folks that have had great luck with the pills.

Look on the label.... see what the Lipase potency is... if it is 9,000 USP units... (just to give you an idea) we typically give approx 71,000 USP units of Lipase per 1 cup of food.
... and you are giving 2 cups of food with only 18,000 USP units of Lipase.

I would greatly up the enzyme tablets (if the bottle says 9,000 Lipase) and since this is cost negative, i would look into buying the powdered enzymes from EnzymeDiane. Get the 6x
https://enzymediane.com/
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

troysmom
Member
Posts: 2
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Molly
My name: Kim

Re: Can't seem to get it right

Post by troysmom » 17 Sep 2019, 02:54

Thanks, I’ll talk with the vet this week about changing.

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Can't seem to get it right

Post by Jean » 17 Sep 2019, 07:11

good morning from UK

We have a member who uses tablets, I have asked her for help

however, the powder is easier and cheaper from Diane

what food are you feeding, and how much
J
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Can't seem to get it right

Post by jilbert57 » 17 Sep 2019, 09:14

Good morning and welcome to the forum!
Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Patsy
Member
Posts: 266
Country: United Kingdom - England

Re: Can't seem to get it right

Post by Patsy » 20 Sep 2019, 04:03

It seems like your vet didn’t notice the difference between the Pancreplus products, as the descriptions are the same. As Olesia pointed out, one tablet contains 9000 units, whereas the Pancreplus powder contains 71400 units in a teaspoon, which is what you need.
I would point this out to the vet. (and ask for a refund!) Then change to enzymediane.
Springer spaniel Marti had Epi, PLE , MMM just to confuse me. She lived till 12yrs, chubby and happy despite eight years of epi.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.

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