Home cooked meal help

[kateoak]

My 10yr old Aussie Shepherd was diagnosed about 4 years ago with EPI. After getting everything sorted out with B12 and enzymes I thought we had her on the right course but she never came back to her normal weight and her poops remained a yellowy colour.
After consulting a few other dog owners going thru the same thing I tried changing the amount of enzyme I give her and started making home-cooked meals. It's been about a year since making the meals but no change in her poop or weight. She was a healthy 38-40lbs before EPI but now struggles to stay at 30-31. Though she has lots of energy still, I know she could be much healthier and happier if I sort this out.
I'm wondering if anyone else out there makes home-cooked meals and if so, what's the recipe? Is there something I'm missing?
Below is the recipe I make for her approx. once a month and the qty I serve.

65cups ground chicken breast
65cups white rice
32.5cups mixed veg (peas and carrots, frozen, cooked down and mashed)
6cups ground beef kidney

I mix all this in a large rubbermaid tote and form them into 11oz meals. 2 meals per day, 1/2 tsp enzyme each meal and a multivitamin at brekky. I've found I had to cut back on the enzyme from 1tsp to 7/8 to finally 1/2 to get her poops looking more normal.

[Patsy]

Hello. My dog couldn’t tolerate chicken. Try turkey , red meats or rabbit instead. Rice is also a problem, so sweet potato or pumpkin is good for weight gain. You need some ground bone or eggshells for a calcium intake. It is difficult to balance the essential minerals and vitamins, so I have used a proprietary supplement.
Peas might have too much insoluble fibre.
Maybe she needs some antibiotics for SID and B12?

[Madelon]

Hi and welcome to our EPI family. It says your country is Canada but state is Arizona - are you in Canada or the U.S.?

Do you know what the B12 level was when tested and have you been supplementing B12? You said it was sorted out with Enzymes and B12 - did you stop the B12? Did you ever use an antibiotic for SID (small intestinal dysbiosis)? What enzymes are you using and how do you prepare them? I apologize for all the questions but the more information we have the better we'll be able to make suggestions.

The first thing is there are four cornerstones to managing EPI: Enzymes (the recommended starting dose is 1tsp per cup of kibble, mix in luke warm water and incubate 20-30 minutes before serving); B12 (EPI dogs need their B12 on the high side of normal 600+ and supplementing is for LIFE - most of us use WonderLabs Pet Factor B12); Antibiotics (if dealing with SID a 45 day course of Tylan is recommended and then slowly wean off); and Food (the hardest part of EPI - we recommend grain free with 4% fiber or less - feed 150% of the food for the weight your dog should be but in smaller meals throughout the day).

What stands out to me right off the bat is possible low B12 and SID. If you have not been supplementing B12 (low B12 can affect weight gain, mood, appetite, energy) I would highly recommend getting it tested and start on the WonderLabs Pet Factor B12 pills. Also I would suggest asking your vet for Tylan antibiotic powder and start a 45 day course then at 45 days slowly wean off. Also, most EPI dogs cannot tolerate grains - they interfere with the efficacy of the enzymes so you might want to try eliminating the rice.

[Olesia711]

Hi,

Another think you might want to try adding is Cold Pressed (Organic) Coconut Oil. This is a medium chain triglyceride that is very tolerable by EPI dogs but also high in fat content..... something like 120 calories in a tblsp!!

Most of our dogs can handle it, but you have to start off very slow... at first try adding 1/2 tsp to a meal. Do this for a few days and watch the poos to make sure it's not too much.
If okay,,,, then up it to 1 tsp per meal...
You can continue to try to increase it or not depending on your dog poop reaction

Other than this, i too would swap out the rice for sweet potato (avoid peas too)
Also... in the beginning of treating an EPI dog, you really need to try and feed them about 150% of what they normally would require for a dog their size..... until they gain back most of their weight. BUT.........even after they gain back all of their weight, some EPI dogs tend to still need a little more food than a normal dog their size......... but this is just something you will have to assess at a later date.

[kateoak]

Thanks for all the helpful replies! And so quickly too.

To add some more info:
She had very low B12 over a year ago and got that back up above normal levels using capsules with intrinsic factor. Stopped treatment. Should I be treating it life-long?

I store her enzymes in a mason jar on my counter. I scoop out 1/2tsp and mix with room temp water and let it sit for at least 20 mins before stirring it into the food.

No treatment for SID has ever been done because the vet didnt suspect any issue based on tests (unsure of what tests, this was a few years ago).

Thanks for the tip about the sweet potato/pumpkin! I'm going to start adjusting her meals to take out the rice and replace it with sweetpotato and/or pumpkin. I'll get rid of the peas too, but is there a better veg to replace it with? Otherwise I'm left with just carrot. Also, the coconut oil sounds like a good idea.

Cheers.

[jilbert57]

Green beans worked in my crockpot with beef, sweet potato, carrot and added kale.

Jill

[Olesia711]

ding, ding, ding....thank you for sharing with us your technique...... i "think" i see at least part of the problem....

" I scoop out 1/2tsp and mix with room temp water and let it sit for at least 20 mins before stirring it into the food. "

DO NOT mix the enzymes in water and let it sit 20 minutes before mixing in food......instead...... please mix the enzymes in the food and then add enough room temp water to moisten for food and the enzymes and then let this entire mixture sit for 20 minutes.................

And YES, EPI dogs who's B12 levels are low need to be placed on B12 to bring up the levels and afterwards kept on a B12 maintenance dose.

[kateoak]

Good to know about mixing the enzyme into the food instead of in water first. What's the reason for that?

I'll get her back on the B12 and monitor.

You all have been so helpful. I can't express how thankful I am for all of the advise.

Cheers

[Olesia711]

you are not supposed to get the enzymes wet until you use them... and by adding jsut water to them and then letting them sit in just water for 20 minutes.... you are sort of activating them to some small degree but yet wasting that little bit of activation (and maybe some other chemical reaction happen also... i am not sure, but maybe enzymediane can better explain that) Anyway.... the enzymes' purpose is to be mixed in the food with a little bit of something wet (water at room temp is good) to better mixed the enzymes around in the food, the wetness will start a little bit of activation AND then we then let it incubate for 20 minutes mostly to reduce the caustic properties of the enzymes but also, although science does not back this up clinically, we have repeatedly heard from multiple EPI parents that without incubation, their dogs do not do as well as when the food IS incubated with the enzymes...... Technically for the enzymes to really work they need warmth at a certain temperature, moisture, a certain pH, and other chemical reactions that happen in the digestive system.