New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
User avatar
Sadie'sMom
Member
Posts: 172
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
State: Wisconsin
Pet name: Sadie
My name: Lisa

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhlemed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 19 Nov 2019, 14:08

Hi All:

I have a new question I would like to ask. We just had Sadie’s B12 and Folate levels checked. I got a call from the vet last night and he said that her B12 level is “over 1000”. He said the normal range is about 250 to 900. He said it isn’t bad that she is over 1000. He wasn’t quite sure what we should do as this is his first EPI dog. We discussed it for a bit and we agreed on giving Sadie 1 ½ tablets per day versus 2 (each tablet is 1000 mcg). I don’t want to do anything to upset the apple cart with her. He also said we could stick with the 2000 if we wanted to. He is leaving it up to us to decide what to do. Could you all please tell me what you do and what you would suggest we do?

Thank you!!!

Lisa & Sadie
Sadie is a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever ("Toller" for short). She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. To make sure she ingests the enzymes, we mix some No Sodium Chicken Broth and a small handful of meat - chicken, hamburger, pork - and stir it up with her dog food (she eats like a champ now!). With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI. She has some issues with dry skin we are dealing with now.

User avatar
Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhlemed...

Post by Jean » 20 Nov 2019, 04:46

i never got Kara retested

maybe give one evry other day, and record any difference

j
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

User avatar
Sadie'sMom
Member
Posts: 172
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
State: Wisconsin
Pet name: Sadie
My name: Lisa

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhlemed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 20 Nov 2019, 08:36

Hi Jean:

Can I ask why you never re-tested Kara? Do you think it is unnecessary for us to test Sadie again? If she starts having problems for some reason, would that be the time to test for that?

Thank you for your advice, I really appreciate it!!

Lisa
Sadie is a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever ("Toller" for short). She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. To make sure she ingests the enzymes, we mix some No Sodium Chicken Broth and a small handful of meat - chicken, hamburger, pork - and stir it up with her dog food (she eats like a champ now!). With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI. She has some issues with dry skin we are dealing with now.

User avatar
Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhlemed...

Post by Jean » 20 Nov 2019, 12:37

One reason was the cost, and then it didnt seem necessary, we knew when her levels were low, she became a nightmare, very clingy and reactive to anything that moved, that is more than she already was ! very prey driven dog

so, she had a capsules every day, then every other day, and an injection at the vets every month, and that was for 9 ish years

but if you feel more comfortable testing then go for it

Jeanx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

User avatar
Kodis Mom
Staff
Posts: 62
Location: Custer, WA.
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhlemed...

Post by Kodis Mom » 20 Nov 2019, 13:46

Hi Lisa, I have been lurking watching your thread.. Congratulations of stablizing Sadie ! I only checked Kodis B12 once after we started. As Jean said, you will learn what changes happen to let you know they are going down. Kodi gets mouthy and whiny. Lol We use Wonderlabs as we are in the USA . When we started, we gave 2 a day, then for the last 4 years we give one a day. If she has a bout of SID from eating something she shouldnt have had... then we go back to 2 a day for a week or so.
Kudos to your vet for learning along with you !!
Kodi
B. 8/19/2010 Diagnosed at 11 months.
Kodi is now on Natures Logic turkey and/or pork kibble, 2 cups with 2 teaspoons of enzymes, 1/8 teaspoon of ground coriander, 1/16 teaspoon of cinnamon and ground fennel seed (for tummy upsets) twice a day, plus one one B12 capsule from Wonderlabs. She has been very stable and on occasion needs a dose ofTylan.
She is our second GSD with EPI. It was not so scary this time ! And thank goodness for epi4dogs.com ! 💝 Kodi passed on August 25, 2023 just after her 13th birthday.💝 Forever grateful to Olesia and epi4dogs. She live a long and adventurous life with EPI.

User avatar
Sadie'sMom
Member
Posts: 172
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
State: Wisconsin
Pet name: Sadie
My name: Lisa

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhlemed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 20 Nov 2019, 21:42

Hi Jean & Kodi's Mom:

It's ironic that you mention the cost of testing as my vet actually said we shouldn't test her very often because the blood tests are so expensive ($122 for recent lab work only!) Thank you for sharing your reasons for not testing - I like hearing what others do for their pups and what the results are.

Sadie is a rescue dog who we firmly believe was mistreated. She dislikes most people and hates men. Calling her timid would be an understatement. We got her when she was 5-6 months old ---so the damage had already been done. She loves us and some family members. But even with us, if we raise our voice (like me yelling for my husband when I can't find him in the yard), she very quietly moves away...almost doing an Army crawl so you don't even notice her. The reason I am telling you all of this is because I don't think we would notice a change in her unless it was very drastic.

We also use Wonderlabs B-12 with intrinsic factor. Their B-12 obviously works wonders based on Sadie's lab results!

Thank you both for responding to my post, I sincerely appreciate all of the help everyone has given us and continues to give us.

Have a great evening.

Lisa
Sadie is a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever ("Toller" for short). She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. To make sure she ingests the enzymes, we mix some No Sodium Chicken Broth and a small handful of meat - chicken, hamburger, pork - and stir it up with her dog food (she eats like a champ now!). With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI. She has some issues with dry skin we are dealing with now.

User avatar
Madelon
Staff
Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhlemed...

Post by Madelon » 20 Nov 2019, 22:46

Hi Lisa. I tested Doc's B12 once after about 4 months on the B12 pills - 2x a day as he's a very big boy at 98lbs. It was over a 1000. I reduced his B12 pills from 2 a day to 1 a day and noticed he lost 6lbs - I went back to 2 pills a day and the weight came back. HOWEVER, this is not the norm I don't think. If I were you, I would try reducing and see how things go - just watch for ANY changes - change in energy, mood, appetite, weight, poops, etc. If anything changes for the worse go back to where you were and if it gets back to being better then you know. Remember to keep your log and keep us posted!! We always like to see trends of what works and what doesn't.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

User avatar
Sadie'sMom
Member
Posts: 172
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
State: Wisconsin
Pet name: Sadie
My name: Lisa

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhlemed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 21 Nov 2019, 15:43

Hi Madelon:

Thank you for your post of suggestions - I really appreciate it. I think that is what we will try and do - 1 pill per day instead of 2 and see how she does. Is there any correlation between B12 supplements and weight gain? Sadie has gained back 5.6 of the 10 pounds she lost. She is 44.6 pounds now - so kind of a small dog (at least we consider her small since most of the dogs we have had weigh at least 70 - English Setters). Do you know how fast, if there is a change, that we would see it? Just curious if it is 1 day or several days before we would see something. I will most definitely keep a log and I will report back to my EPI Family to let you know how she does.

Have a great weekend and thank you again for your advice - it is always appreciated.

Lisa
Sadie is a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever ("Toller" for short). She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. To make sure she ingests the enzymes, we mix some No Sodium Chicken Broth and a small handful of meat - chicken, hamburger, pork - and stir it up with her dog food (she eats like a champ now!). With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI. She has some issues with dry skin we are dealing with now.

User avatar
Sadie'sMom
Member
Posts: 172
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
State: Wisconsin
Pet name: Sadie
My name: Lisa

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 30 Nov 2019, 11:58

Hi All:

Sadie has been stable for awhile now. She has already grown tired of her new dog food. Yesterday we added chicken broth instead of water to make her food and she liked that a lot (thank goodness). Does anyone notice their dog eating less either in the winter or when they are less active? It is winter here and she goes outside - but nowhere near how much she goes outside when it is nice out - so she isn't getting anywhere near the amount of activity she usually does. Of course, since her diagnosis, any little change with her throws me into panic mode. :( (Poop is great. Great attitude. But seems to be sleeping a bit more - probably bored?)

Next, we want to make her some treats. I just purchased a dehydrator to make her some treats after seeing the ones under the TREATS portion. Anyone have any other suggestions for treats? Or any suggestions on how to make the EPI treats taste better? Also, this is probably a stupid question - but when you all make treats in your dehydrator, do you put in (or leave out) foods that we would be consuming? Last thing we want is to be ingesting enzymes. :D And we will be going very slow with introducing anything new to make sure she does okay with it.

One more question - and this probably isn't EPI related - but going to ask. I have noticed Sadie biting on her middle back sometimes. I looked at the area and there are one or two very small scabs - size of a pin head. She has always had pretty dry skin and when I brush her (before and after EPI diagnosis), she has a LOT of dander. I have noticed a few very small areas (nape of her neck where collar is and the inside of her front leg by her elbow) where her hair has thinned a bit - nothing bad - just something I noticed. I just purchased Zesty Paws Oatmeal shampoo and Z.P. leave in conditioner for hot spots. Anyone else have any of these issues with your pups? EPI related if you know? What you do for your pup with the same issues.

Would LOVE some suggestions from everyone on all/any of my questions, please.

Thank you all in advance.

Lisa & Sadie
Sadie is a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever ("Toller" for short). She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. To make sure she ingests the enzymes, we mix some No Sodium Chicken Broth and a small handful of meat - chicken, hamburger, pork - and stir it up with her dog food (she eats like a champ now!). With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI. She has some issues with dry skin we are dealing with now.

User avatar
jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2095
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhlemed...

Post by jilbert57 » 30 Nov 2019, 13:32

I use the Zymox enzymatic shampoo then leave on conditioner on my two. Works great for us. Before they get to be a hotspot you might try an anti itch topical. I use the Zymox spray with hydrocortisone. I am not a Zymox rep lol. they work for us and I can get them from Amazon☺️
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 361 guests