New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Olesia711 » 22 Apr 2020, 23:06

Yep dealing with EPI can be a roller coaster ride... until you find the right balance of everything! And then things are fine... until the next bump in the road like when a pet food company changes the formula on the food that has been perfect for your dog.... surprise! or all has been going well and then 4 or 5 years later ... all of a sudden the dog's SID is out of control .... and it's because your dog has aged, things don't work as well as they used to and the fix is to slightly increase the enzyme dose (please remember this tidbit as it happens to a lot of our EPI dogs as they age... not all... but a good many!)

And yes, d Sadie just "burps" once or twice immediately after eating a meal and she eats fast... then that is exactly what that is and no need to treat for out of controlled SID.

YES you can put slippery elm powder in capsules and camouflage it by tucking them in something too and give with a meal (that has a little extra moisture in it.)

I wouldn't try other foods just yet .. but once Sadie is back to normal and maintains her "norm"s for about 1 to 2 weeks.... THEN i would try a different food. Rice is a grain... although some dogs do just fine on it... i think it is part how well that dog can tolerate grains without it interfering with the enzyme efficacy... AND... exactly how much rice there is in that particular dog food formula.. If you want, email me privately (olesia.kennedy@gmail.com) sending me your mailing address and i can send you a sample of the Sport Elite grain free and pea free dog food.... and you can "try" it on Sadie without spending money on a new bag of food.

SPORT Elite Whitefish
1. Ingredients (notice no peas or lentils or white potato... this is a good quality food for many EPI dogs)

Whitefish Meal, Dried Sweet Potato, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Coconut Meal, Cassava Root, Ocean Fish Meal, Natural Flavors, Salmon Oil, Monocalcium Phosphate, Calcium Propionate, Potassium Chloride, Yeast Culture (Probiotic), Chicory Root, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acids Chelate, Salt, Yucca Schidigera Extract (Probiotic), Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Sulfate, Dried Cranberry Powder, Dried Blueberry Powder, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Selenium Yeast (Probiotic), Niacin Supplement (Vitamin B3), D-Calcium Pantothenate (Vitamin B5), Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B2), Vitamin B 12 Supplement, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Biotin (Vitamin B8), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Folic Acid, Copper Amino Acids Complex (Chelate), Green Tea Extract, Rosemary Extract, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product (Probiotic), Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Product (Probiotic), Dried Trichoderma Longibrachiatum Fermentation Product (Probiotic), Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product (Probiotic).

and fiber content is good at 3.9%
Crude Protein 27.0% min
Crude Fat 16.0% min
Crude Fiber 3.9% max

OR..... try

Taste of the Wild "Pacific Stream" commercial food (small bag)
1. Notice how "PEAS" is the 5th items down the line (and then lentils 7th)....
Ingredients
Salmon, Ocean Fish Meal, Sweet Potatoes, Potatoes, Peas, Canola Oil, Lentils[/color], Salmon Meal, Smoked Salmon, Potato Fiber, Natural Flavor, Salt, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Dried Chicory Root, Tomatoes, Blueberries, Raspberries, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Animalis Fermentation Product, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin D Supplement, Folic Acid. Contains A Source Of Live (Viable), Naturally Occurring Microorganisms.and the
2. fiber content is very low at 3%:
Crude Protein 25.0% min
Crude Fat 15.0% min
Crude Fiber 3.0% max
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Sadie'sMom
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Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
State: Wisconsin
Pet name: Sadie
My name: Lisa

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 24 Apr 2020, 07:34

Good Morning Olesia:

Thank you for the continued valuable information and the time you take doing all of this.

I am thrilled to hear I can do the slippery elm powder in a capsule! I will try that with her and see how she does. I'm hoping she doesn't throw it up like she did when I gave it to her by syringe.

I still can't believe how well she is doing already. Poops are normal, energy level is excellent. Yes, the burping is only after a meal. From what you said, I will hold off a while on giving her anything and just see how she does. The last day or two - she hasn't eaten any grass (that we have seen at least) and definitely hasn't thrown any up like she had been doing.

I was happy to hear what you said about holding off on switching her food. Now that we have her normalized again - I just don't want to rock the boat. But I do understand where you are coming from with needing to change things up down the road because from what I have read on a bunch of posts on the Forum is that people are having to change dog foods at some point in time - sometimes multiple times - until the pup gets normalized again. EPI dogs sure are unique.

I am going to print off your response and keep it in my folder. I really appreciate your kind offer to send me some dog food. When it comes time for us to try a new food, I will be in touch.

Looking forward to the weekend with my once again healthy pup. I hope you have a great weekend too. Thank you for your continued help, Olesia. :)

Lisa & Sadie
Sadie is a Golden Retriever. She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 1223
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Olesia711 » 24 Apr 2020, 13:43

Hi Lisa,

You are very welcome and wishing you and Sadie a wonderful, easy and boring weekend with no surprises, just good ol' normal poops (the dog's that is :lol: ....)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Madelon
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Madelon » 26 Apr 2020, 14:20

Hi Lisa!! I know you said Sadie turns her nose up at everything but have you ever let her try to lick a little cream cheese? I volunteer at a rescue and I have found over the years the pickiest dogs and hardest to pill dogs rarely turn their nose up at the the cream cheese. I usually put just a dab on my finger let them smell it, be patient, and they usually will try a lick - then they want more! When using even a powder like Tylan or a capsule let her lick a little off your finger with no med in it and then give her the glob of cream cheese with the pill or powder in it.

EPI is definitely a roller coaster ride - we are 5yrs in and have had LOTS of ups and downs - I say that not to discourage you but to ENCOURAGE you. As long as they are gaining or maintaining weight and have energy you can get over the bumps in the road. A lot of my bumps have had to do with food sensitivities which then lead to SID but when I look at my boy's big brown eyes it makes it all worth it. Hang in there - we got ya!
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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Sadie'sMom
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Location: Wisconsin
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Pet name: Sadie
My name: Lisa

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 27 Apr 2020, 07:42

Good Morning Olesia & Madelon!

First, as always, thank you very much for answering my questions, offering tips and the continued support on our "EPI journey". I thought when we got Sadie stable that it was going to be a "look, we got her fixed, everything is back to normal"!!! Now, I have realized that we are going to have bumps in the road --- but at least I am going to have the support & guidance from you all to get through it. I have learned soooo much from everyone already but I know I will need to continue to learn as time goes on. I am definitely going to try the cream cheese trick and will be very interested to see if she likes it or not. She does like ice cream (or should I said "did like ice cream") - so maybe she will like that. You are right, Madelon, all you have to do is look in those big brown eyes and you just know you are going to do whatever it takes to get them through the current hurdle that landed on your lap.

I can say that besides the all of the valuable information that we have learned from this website is only second to the incredible amount of support we have been given by all of the wonderful staff members who so freely give of their time to help others. Where would all of us EPI "parents" be without you? I shudder to even think about that question.

For now, I am thankful Sadie is healthy again and her poops remain great! Have a great week to all of you.

Lisa & Sadie
Sadie is a Golden Retriever. She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI.

Barb
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Barb » 27 Apr 2020, 10:01

So glad to hear that right now things are stable and going well. Even after 10 years of managing EPI, I still felt a sinking feeling when Kolby's poos started to go south for one reason or another. Keeping our emotions in check is not always easy...and you are learning what we all have learned: There isn't any "look, we got her fixed, everything is normal...." But we have what we need to keep managing.....a whole village of wonderful, knowledgeable people to help us when we need help or get stuck.

Enjoy the calm.....

Hugs to you and Sadie.


Barb

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Sadie'sMom
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Location: Wisconsin
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Pet name: Sadie
My name: Lisa

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 27 Apr 2020, 13:45

Hi Barb:

I just wanted to say thank you for your continued support. It honestly helps to keep hearing that everyone is going through, or has gone through, or will go through bumps in the road. Sometimes it's easy to think you are the only person something like this is happening to and "where did I go wrong, what did I do wrong".....or, worse yet......am I all the way back to square one with her and it is going to take weeks and weeks to get her healthy again. I know that I am going to have another bump in the road and I know that I am going to freak out when it happens. Hopefully, with time, the nervousness won't be as bad. Hearing that you still get that sinking feeling for your 10 year old pup.....it helps me to know I am not in a boat alone.

Would be nice some day if the research yields a cure or a miracle medicine with zero side effects and no problems.

Thank you for your continued support and for taking the time to share your story --- it really does help. :-)

Lisa & Sadie
Sadie is a Golden Retriever. She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 1223
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Olesia711 » 28 Apr 2020, 19:48

Please keep us posted on Sadie's progress :) !
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

User avatar
Sadie'sMom
Member
Posts: 106
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
State: Wisconsin
Pet name: Sadie
My name: Lisa

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 29 Apr 2020, 13:47

Hi Olesia:

I most definitely will! She is doing great - eating and pooping like a champ.

BTW - thank you for your card and the acknowledgement of my recent donation. I was glad that I was given the choice to make a donation to a charity that was/is meaningful to me when my old co-worker's husband passed away - so then I could given it to EPI4Dogs....my new favorite charity. Also my charity of choice for all of my Amazon purchases. :-)

Take care and stay safe.

Lisa
Sadie is a Golden Retriever. She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI.

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Jean
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Jean » 29 Apr 2020, 15:38

You are one lovely lady , and I salute you from me as long term EPI person

I had a cat in the 80's with it so .................................................you never forget the smell, she lived to 20, and My beloved Kara, from 2010 to 2019, she was a trooper to the end

what is it like where you are with Covid 19, here in Liverpool UK, we are on almost lockdown, we havent been anywhere other than food shopping for 5 weeks

its very strange no cars on the road ,no people, its weird but nowhere is open, the city centre is deserted

but it can only get better

and we salute Captain Tom who has raised near £30 million for our NHS by walking round his garden, love him, 100 tomorrow !

cheers

Jeanxxxxx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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