New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

[jilbert57]

When first diagnosed, if the animal has lost a lot of weight, instead of feeding 2 big meals we ask if they can feed 3 or 4 meals, adding in the extra food in 1 or 2 meals. Some spread it out breakfast, lunch, dinner and before bed. Then as the dog gains weight a meal or 2 is removed.
My two dogs are not EPI, but the older one Kiya has never been good being fed at 5pm, then not again until 6am. I feed her a bedtime snack then a Pepcid AC.

Jill

[Madelon]

Hey there. I would stop the new food immediately. Looking at the Authority Chicken and Pea I'm not sure this is a good choice. The fiber although only half a percent higher than recommended could be an issue as well as the peas and chickpeas especially since they are the 3rd and 5th ingredient if I remember right. Also, if you're still not supplementing with the right B12 (shots or WonderLab pills) that could be the issue and/or the wrong antibiotic used to treat SID.

I would go back to the previous food for now. Several of us have switched to Sport Dog Food Elite with good results - it's grain free, has no peas and legumes and the fiber content is pretty low, however, there are other foods you could get from the store faster to try. You might consider trying it but remember buy a small bag no matter what you try. When you look for a food really try to avoid peas and even chicken if possible (for some reason, although they could tolerate chicken prior to EPI diagnosis, lots of EPI dogs cannot tolerate chicken after diagnosis). Your vet is right you want to wean off of the old food onto the new food - over 7 days.

As for the carrot - trust me I know how scary it is to try anything new but the carrot trick will really help you figure out if a change works or not. Trust me I'm very leery of trying anything with my boy because of course I ended up with the most sensitive to change dog EVER - we've had several ups and downs but the carrot trick has saved me numerous times.

I understand being leery of upsetting your vet, I was too. My vet had treated an EPI dog before as well, however, he was not up to date on the current protocol for managing EPI - so after researching everything on our website, I printed things off and took them into the vet and we discussed things. As long as it was not something harmful to the dog he saw no reason in trying it - for instance he did not think we needed to supplement B12, didn't think we needed Tylan or to let the enzymes sit before serving, wanted low fat food, etc. - after following the protocol here my boy gained back the 20lbs he lost in 6 weeks. Unfortunately vets are not able to keep up with all of the latest research just like human doctors, so don't be afraid to print things off and discuss them with your vet.

[Madelon]

Good morning Lisa. Sorry if my reply last night was a little short - it was very late after an extremely stressful, long day. Anyway, I went back over some of the posts - I personally would still discontinue the new food and go back to the old one and try to find one that fits within the parameters of grain free, low fiber and avoid or limit peas - look for one that only has peas listed once if at all and way down on the list. Honestly, food is the hardest and trickiest part of EPI. It took me almost a year to find the right food for Doc because I discovered in addition to EPI he had developed food sensitivites - uggghhhh. The vomit could be from a few things - the food, the SID is still out of control or just an empty stomach. I used to feed Doc a meal before bedtime because he would periodically vomit bile in the morning - I was able to stop that after about a year. However, with yours throwing up undigested food that makes me think it's more an intolerance of the food or likely SID. Until you are able to get the prescription for Tylan you can try using Slippery Elm Bark Powder - be sure you get the powder not capsules. You can order the NOW brand from Amazon or WonderLabs also carries SE. SE is a mucilage that coats the gastrointestinal tract and research has shown it can be more effective in treating diarrhea and SID. My boy gets it every day to help keep his SID under control. Here's the link to the page on it https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/. As Jill said you can also give an antacid - be sure to ask your vet for dosing before giving it.

Keep us posted - sending hugs!

[Sadie'sMom]

Good Morning Madelon (and Jill):

I just got both of your posts this morning. I am in Wisconsin (not sure of our time differences) and I tend to go to bed early as i don't sleep well at night. Sorry to hear you had a stressful day. Jill came to my rescue last night several times by email with great advice and was a huge help!

We followed Jill's advice last night (backing down on the taper). We fed Sadie last night and she did great last night. This morning, she had 100% normal poop! This is the first time she has had normal poop in almost 6 weeks!!! We fed her again this morning (unfortunately I didn't get your message until after she was fed), so we will have to wait and see what happens now that it is in her system. Fingers crossed. Yes, I made the mistake of buying the largest bag of dog food they have as we have decided to put both dogs on the same food to make things easier for us. So if Sadie can't finish the food, it won't go to waste. However, in the future, we will only buy the small bags until we know what works for her. Thank you for the recommendation on the dog food you use - that will be the next one we try if Authority doesn't work.

I spoke to the vet and they suggested I get a B12 that has 1000 micrograms in it. We are finishing up the Panzquin - which has 500 mcgs per tsp. That means she is currently getting 625 mcgs per meal or 1250 mcgs total per day (with feeding her twice). We want her to replace the weight she lost, so we are going to start feeding her 3 times per day until she has regained the 10 pounds she lost. Fingers crossed she will eat that 3rd meal! How much B12 should Sadie be getting each day (39 pounds)? I am ordering Diane's Enzyme's and B12 from Wonderlabs - so want to get exactly what we need.

IF her stool remains stable, do we hold off on giving her the SEB powder and use that only if the diarrhea comes back?

We are going to stop the Metro in a few days and are hoping her diarrhea doesn't come back, but if it does, we are 100% going to get her on Tylan (once vet approves of course).

Thank you (both) again for your continued support and help.

Lisa

[jilbert57]

Good morning Lisa. Happy poop dance!! That is the best feeling.
I would suggest when you are done with the Metro, if you still hear tummy rumblings, gas or acid reflux to ask for the tylan. It would be a twice daily dose for 45 days.

https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/

I agree with Madelon and the peas in the food you are switching to. Peas sometimes present an issue.

Will Sadie be doing any B12 shots to begin with?

I would hold off on the SE if the vomiting and diarrhea have subsided. It is excellent to have on hand.

Diane is very helpful so when you go to order enzymes if you have questions give her a call.

Jill

[Sadie'sMom]

Good Morning:

Yes - we DID do the happy poop dance this morning!

The vet never mentioned doing B12 shots. Not sure why. Maybe she was hoping the B12 in the Panzquin would be enough?

Definitely will bring up the Tylan issue with the vet when they call to check in on Sadie on Monday.

Appreciate the continued support!!

Lisa

[Jean]

Hi Lisa from the UK

We have been away for a few days and again next week , you seem to be doing good , and I am delighted that you have had support, which will continue

ask the vet about b12 and any results they have

keep evrything in a journal

Jean

[Sadie'sMom]

Good Morning Kara fro the UK!

We are keeping a daily journal on everything and it has helped immensely!

We ordered B12 and Slippery Elm Bark powder from Wonderlabs. Going to be ordering Diane's Enzymes tomorrow.

Thank you for responding.
Lisa

[Sadie'sMom]

Hi Jill:

The vet hasn't said anything about B12 shots. If she is doing well on the new food (poop remains normal!!) and does well off the Metro (first day off) and she starts gaining some weight, can we hold off on B12 shots? I ordered the B12 from Wonderlabs on Friday. Do you have a suggestion how much B12 she needs per day? Want to give her enough but not too much! Right now she is getting 1350 mcgs total per day with her being fed twice per day (that's the amount in the Panzquin).

Thank you!

Lisa

[jilbert57]

Hi Lisa,
Sadies B12 was 159. The Epi dogs B12 needs to be at least 600. Here is information from TAMU:

https://epi4dogs.com/b12-protocol/

Mickeys was over 800 so I did not supplement(he had chronic pancreatitis)

You could try 2 with each meal as excess B12 is excreted in the urine. Unless the B12 in the food contains the Intrinsic factor it most likely is not utilized by a pup with Epi, Please read this and note about the Isle of Langerhans and Intrinsic factor:

https://epi4dogs.com/b12-in-brief-2/

Jill