New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
User avatar
jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by jilbert57 » 19 Apr 2020, 10:26

Hi Lisa. It sounds like SID/SIBO to me. Especially the burping. Is she taking Tylan daily I don't recall.
Sure you can try the Slippery elm. I would just mix her dose for the weight with a quarter to half cup water and let it set until it gets a little thick. Then let her lap it up.
Has she always been on that food? She was ok with the first canned food but not fish? I would go back to what food combo was working.
Is she able to keep water down?

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

User avatar
Sadie'sMom
Member
Posts: 172
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
State: Wisconsin
Pet name: Sadie
My name: Lisa

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 19 Apr 2020, 10:59

Hi Jill:

First, thank you for responding so quickly! That burp was a "one and done" - she normally doesn't burp. She was very hungry after playing outside all day - so she gulped her food down faster than normal last night too. Might have gotten too much air while doing that??

So the SEB is something I just give to her in a bowl? It's not something I mix with food then?

Last night was the first time she had that type (fish/potato) canned food; otherwise she has had the chicken one with no problems. For her dry food, she has been on Authority Grain Free for 6 months and doing great on it. I will immediately go back to what we were doing that was working.

I don't know about the water yet as she hasn't had anything to drink since the diarrhea then the vomiting began. I'm not sure I could get her to take the SEB if she isn't drinking anything, but will go make it and offer it to her.

Lisa & Sadie
Sadie is a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever ("Toller" for short). She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. To make sure she ingests the enzymes, we mix some No Sodium Chicken Broth and a small handful of meat - chicken, hamburger, pork - and stir it up with her dog food (she eats like a champ now!). With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI. She has some issues with dry skin we are dealing with now.

User avatar
Sadie'sMom
Member
Posts: 172
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
State: Wisconsin
Pet name: Sadie
My name: Lisa

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 19 Apr 2020, 11:20

Update:

She just threw up (3rd time and counting) slime and 2 slivers of grass (no clue when she ate all this grass - probably the first time we let her out this AM when no one was watching her.

Just spoon fed her 1/2 scoop of SEB with 1/4 cup water. She did not like it at all - but I "force fed" all of it (holding jaw open and spooning in small amounts). How often can/should she have this? If it works, how long before she stops throwing up?

Thank you.

Lisa
Sadie is a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever ("Toller" for short). She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. To make sure she ingests the enzymes, we mix some No Sodium Chicken Broth and a small handful of meat - chicken, hamburger, pork - and stir it up with her dog food (she eats like a champ now!). With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI. She has some issues with dry skin we are dealing with now.

User avatar
jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by jilbert57 » 19 Apr 2020, 12:00

So when you say 1/2 scoop is that the dose from this site? Mine readily eat it. You can put it on the food and mix it in I thought you might be between meals. Have the last throw ups been foam and grass? Mickey was the only one who could mow the lawn without bringing it back up. The other 2 eat it then spit like your picture and I don't worry about those grass spits.
The SE I feed 2 or 3 times a day but my dogs are not EPI so I can use a little broth for flavor.
If Kiya has diarrhea in the morning SE works and her poop is formed by dinner.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

User avatar
Sadie'sMom
Member
Posts: 172
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
State: Wisconsin
Pet name: Sadie
My name: Lisa

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 19 Apr 2020, 13:16

Hi Jill:

Sorry - the scoop that came with the SEB from Wonderlabs (that shows the same amount of dosage as you said).

No foam, just slimy mucous and small bits of grass (so slimy it was hard to clean up with paper towel as it kept moving).

I ,laughed on the "mow the grass" comment - too funny. Sadie is 3 and we have never, ever seen her eat grass- today was the first. Our other dogs always ate grass when they had a sick gut so they would throw up and then feel better. So maybe the vomiting was related to the upset stomach from the fish/potato food.

We use chicken broth with almost ever meal so that Sadie doesn't get mouth sores - and she loves the flavor. So at dinner time tonight, I should put the SEB in with her food and let her get it that way?

Lisa
Sadie is a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever ("Toller" for short). She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. To make sure she ingests the enzymes, we mix some No Sodium Chicken Broth and a small handful of meat - chicken, hamburger, pork - and stir it up with her dog food (she eats like a champ now!). With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI. She has some issues with dry skin we are dealing with now.

User avatar
Sadie'sMom
Member
Posts: 172
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
State: Wisconsin
Pet name: Sadie
My name: Lisa

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 20 Apr 2020, 16:21

Growing a bit more concerned about Sadie. Maybe I am not being patient enough and whatever she has is going to take a few days to run its course. She ate more grass today - now seems almost obsessed with it - and of course threw it up. She just dry heaved pretty hard - nothing came up.

I feed her this morning an enzymed meal with small bits of chicken in it - something she has always tolerated. I assume I can keep doing that?

I hope I am doing the SEB correctly as it says if you give them too much it can have the same effect on them - make them nauseated. I am mixing 1/2 of a scoop (the scoop that came with the SEB from Wonderlabs) with 1/4 cup of water. She got it twice yesterday (am and pm) and again this morning. Will give her another dose tonight unless someone tells me otherwise.

I just thought she would be better by now and that canned food would be out of her system. OR, could it be something else going on? I know dogs get sick sometimes out of the blue. This morning, she drank a lot more water than usual - another thing to worry about? Or likely was dehydrated and needed to replenish her body? You can tell she doesn't feel well - very mopey and quiet.

I worry about her more than any other pet I have ever known. I'm making myself sick worrying about her. Any guidance would be appreciated more than you know....

Thank you.

Lisa
Sadie is a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever ("Toller" for short). She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. To make sure she ingests the enzymes, we mix some No Sodium Chicken Broth and a small handful of meat - chicken, hamburger, pork - and stir it up with her dog food (she eats like a champ now!). With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI. She has some issues with dry skin we are dealing with now.

User avatar
jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by jilbert57 » 20 Apr 2020, 17:17

Does her poop still appear mushy in the middle?

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

User avatar
Sadie'sMom
Member
Posts: 172
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
State: Wisconsin
Pet name: Sadie
My name: Lisa

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 20 Apr 2020, 17:38

Jill:

I think she had a normal poop this morning - but not 100% sure as I was at work and Wayne was home. He found 3 separate poops in the yard - one or two of which are Bella's. I can tell you that while in her kennel in the truck she let out one little turd the size of my thumb and it was soft - but not diarrhea. Gurgling noises from her stomach going on right now - not a ton - but enough.

I will definitely be going outside with her the next time I take her out and will let you know.

Lisa
Sadie is a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever ("Toller" for short). She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. To make sure she ingests the enzymes, we mix some No Sodium Chicken Broth and a small handful of meat - chicken, hamburger, pork - and stir it up with her dog food (she eats like a champ now!). With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI. She has some issues with dry skin we are dealing with now.

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Olesia711 » 20 Apr 2020, 20:10

i always added the slippery elm to Izzy's food , and for us i just added a few tablespoons of water too and mixed it all in her food.... that's how she got her Slippery ELm.

Hope the semi-formed poo is Sadie's poop after all... and if so, that means that the SE (slippery Elm) is helping.....but that tell-tale tummy grumbling, the slime, the grass eating, upchucking.... all points to most likely SID/SIBO going on... if the SLippery ELM doesn't correct it or doesn't correct it enough..... then time for an antibiotic... but give things at least 3 days on SE especially since she sounds like she is doing a tiny bit better and not worse.... before reaching for antibiotics.... it is always good if you can get the SID under control with out using antibiotics.... but on the flip side, if you have to , you have to.

Keep us updated!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

User avatar
Sadie'sMom
Member
Posts: 172
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
State: Wisconsin
Pet name: Sadie
My name: Lisa

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 20 Apr 2020, 20:34

Hi Olesia:

Thank you for responding - it means a lot to me. Sadie is extremely picky and wouldn't touch her food with the SE on it, so I decided to use a syringe. That worked twice yesterday and this morning. This evening --- not good. Within minutes of giving it to her, she threw it all up along with slimy mucous. We waited 2 hours and I just tried to feed her. She just refused to eat dinner - even though we put some boiled hamburger in with her enzymed food - she wouldn't go near it. She did eat a bit of enzymed treats that I make her and a few bites of burger out of my hand. (The treats are just made with just her dog food, broth and her enzymes and then put in the dehydrator. She has been eating those for quite some time now).

I called her vet and asked for Tylan. He is having a local pharmacy mix up the compound for us to pick up tomorrow. I am concerned how I am going to get her to take that since he said it tastes bitter.

Would you suggest that I wait another day or so before doing the Tylan? Do we need to have her tested for SID? If she has SID, does this mean she is now on SEB for life? Sorry for all of the questions...I feel lost again. We just got her EPI figured out and now we have something new to learn. Not having a pity party - just want her feeling better.

Thank you for your continued help - we need it...

Lisa
Sadie is a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever ("Toller" for short). She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. To make sure she ingests the enzymes, we mix some No Sodium Chicken Broth and a small handful of meat - chicken, hamburger, pork - and stir it up with her dog food (she eats like a champ now!). With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI. She has some issues with dry skin we are dealing with now.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Patsy and 239 guests