New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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jilbert57
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by jilbert57 » 04 Jan 2021, 09:39

Hi Lisa! Good to hear Sadie is well.

I just talked with another staff member and she said the recommended amount to feed an Epi dog is not over 3 cups at any meal so as not to overload the system. Can you feed Sadie 1 1/4 c in the am and pm?


As long as the food agrees its good but somewhere down the line maybe look at one without pea as a protein source.

Tartar, I would have her teeth cleaned if deemed needed and then either use a dental spray or brush with extra soft baby brush and dog tartar paste or paste on gauze.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Madelon
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Madelon » 04 Jan 2021, 20:43

Hi Lisa! Awww Sadie is a Chunky Monkey :) We typically don't recommend feeding more than 2 cups at a time as it's a bit too much on their digestive system. I would suggest splitting her food into two meals so instead of 1 meal of 3 cups try 1 1/2 cups in the am and 1 1/2 cups in the pm - this should help keep her hunger more manageable as she's not waiting so long between meals. If you feel 3 cups is too much weight wise, then you might try reducing to 1 1/4cups am and 1 1/4cups pm - just make sure she doesn't lose too much weight.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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Sadie'sMom
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 06 Jan 2021, 17:03

Hi Madelon & Jill:

First, thank you both for responding - I appreciate it. You made me smile - Chunky Monkey.....yes, that is what she is starting to become. Okay, I will try splitting the food up to 2 meals per day - especially since we want to do everything possible to not tax her digestive system. She is a pokey eater - only putting 1 or 2 pieces of food in her mouth at a time. So it takes her awhile to eat her meal every day (we feed her at 4 p.m.). We definitely don't want to head back into the low weight zone ever again, that's for sure.

Jill - I will do what you suggested about her teeth and hope to see good results.

I will let you know if we see any changes regarding her food and her teeth.

BTW - we are enjoying our EPI calendar....and can't wait until Sadie is the "cover girl" in August. :)

Happy New Year to everyone!

Lisa
Sadie is a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever ("Toller" for short). She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. To make sure she ingests the enzymes, we mix some No Sodium Chicken Broth and a small handful of meat - chicken, hamburger, pork - and stir it up with her dog food (she eats like a champ now!). With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI. She has some issues with dry skin we are dealing with now.

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Olesia711
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Olesia711 » 06 Jan 2021, 19:37

Oh wow... Hi Lisa....haven't heard from you for a long while......so glad to hear that Sadie is doing well overall..... and becoming pleasantly plump, eh?! :) you have been given great tips from Jill and Madelon about the feeding.

Regarding the hair changing color.... not EPI related but interesting. I had/have Spanish Water Dogs and the ones that have the "fading" gene will start to change color/and yes depending on their coat, will turn almost white .... of course Sadie is not a poodle or SWD or PWD ... but maybe she genetically somehow has a fading gene... is she a mix or pure bred? This is the only thing i can think of that i am familiar with regarding coat color change.

Ahh... tartar on the teeth.... again not EPI related... i think it depends on the individual dog if they are more prone to tartar or not. My EPI gal had great teeth and she lived until she was 15 years old.... BUT.... i did give her and my other dogs BIG soup bones to gnaw on.... which i think really helped keep her teeth clean. So if it is possible to give Sadie big bones or deer antlers, maybe that would help?
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Jean
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Jean » 07 Jan 2021, 06:48

might be worth trying activated charcoal, we tried it with Kara and it helped with her teeth

https://yourolddog.com/dog-dental-care/

my Kara changed colour right through the year, every year, I asked the vet and he said "it happens"

to be honest my other three sheps all changed colour every time they had had a big shed , not dramatically but they did
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Sadie'sMom
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 11 Jan 2021, 16:15

Hi Olesia & Jean!!

Awww....thank you for saying that. I really like keeping in touch with you all. I always wanted a sister - and now I feel like I have gained several of them. :) Yes, our Sadie is becoming pleasantly plump. We are trying the tips from Jill and Madelon and will see how it goes. I still feel like Sadie is a fragile piece of glass --- and that if I screw something up, she is going to break and I will have to try put her pieces back together again. I don't know if that feeling will ever pass. I guess after coming so close to losing her -- it gets instilled in you to not want to do anything different because she is doing so, so well now thanks to you all. But a food change like this is definitely something we can do!

Wow - thank you for the interesting info on the hair color change. She seems to be getting whiter and whiter as every day passes. The white hair isn't going away with shedding unfortunately.

I'm actually really happy to hear her tartar isn't EPI related. I would love to give her bones to chew on!! But I thought that was a no-no? So that is something we can do? If so, she would be in 7th heaven!! I am going to have to check into activated charcoal - thank you for that tip.

Again - it is so great to hear from you all the last few days. It really has cheered me up in this crazy COVID world we are all living in. :)

Hugs - Lisa & Sadie
Sadie is a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever ("Toller" for short). She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. To make sure she ingests the enzymes, we mix some No Sodium Chicken Broth and a small handful of meat - chicken, hamburger, pork - and stir it up with her dog food (she eats like a champ now!). With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI. She has some issues with dry skin we are dealing with now.

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Olesia711
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Olesia711 » 11 Jan 2021, 22:45

Hi Lisa,

All my dogs LOVED bones..... BUT..... i would go to the butcher or a supermarket and ask for BIG beef soup bones.
Then i would scrap all the fat and most of the meat off of them (because of Izzy's EPI)... and give the uncooked but trimmed raw bone to my dogs... they LOVED them.

When i first gave a fresh bone to Izzy... i would be sure to give it to her to gnaw on for only a few minutes and i made sure to give it to her within an hour or less of her having an enzymed meal.... so she at least had "some" enzymes in her when she got some of the gristle of the bone..... but once the bone was pretty much cleaned off all gristle/debris.... she was allowed to gnaw on the bone anytime .

Here is a picture of some of the soup bones Izzy gnawed on.... we had some bones that lasted for almost 10 years!!!!
Image

P.S. she also was a greedy girl and thought EVERYTHING was hers.......... :)
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Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Sadie'sMom
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My name: Lisa

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 13 Jan 2021, 13:59

Hi Olesia:

Oh, be still my heart.....that photo is beyond adorable. She looks like she is smiling for you. You were so blessed to have her.

So I can give Sadie a big beef soup bone? I understand that it needs to be uncooked and trimmed. So then this would be the type of bone that won't splinter? She would be in 7th heaven if she could have something like that to gnaw on. Yes, I would give it right after her meal so that she has her enzymes in her. (Thank you for being so specific in your post - it helps me know how to do this step by step). A bone that lasted 10 years!!! :o

I found some little rawhide knot bones that we used to give the pups. The ingredients are: Beefhide, Artificial Chicken Flavor, FD&C Yellow #5, FD&C Yellow #6, FD&C Blue #1. I'm guessing the answer is going to be no, but is this something she could have right after an enzymed meal? I don't want to take any chances of doing anything wrong - so if there is the slightest chance of that - I won't give them to her.

Thank you, Olesia, for always being so helpful. I sincerely appreciate it.

Hugs - Lisa & Sadie
Sadie is a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever ("Toller" for short). She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. To make sure she ingests the enzymes, we mix some No Sodium Chicken Broth and a small handful of meat - chicken, hamburger, pork - and stir it up with her dog food (she eats like a champ now!). With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI. She has some issues with dry skin we are dealing with now.

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Olesia711
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Olesia711 » 13 Jan 2021, 19:59

yes.... you can give Sadie a BIG raw beef bone that you have trimmed as best you can and just give it within an hour (or less) of an "enzymed" meal.
the very first few times you give it... as it will still have some "gristle" on it no matter how good you trim it... so only let her gnaw on it for 10 15 minutes and then take it away...... and just let her have it again, next to another enzymed meal for a limited amount of time.

Do this until ALL the gristle is gone from her gnawing.... in other words that bone is clean!!!!.....and then.... she can have that bone any time.....

REgarding the rawhides... i personally am not a fan of them.............
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Sadie'sMom
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Location: Wisconsin
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Pet name: Sadie
My name: Lisa

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...

Post by Sadie'sMom » 15 Jan 2021, 09:16

Good Morning Olesia:

THANK YOU for the specific instructions on how to do this. I'm the kind of person who needs the step-by-step instructions (a/k/a hand holding). I am definitely going to get her the bone --- she is going to be sooo darn excited!!!! I will have to get Bella one too --- so she doesn't think we are playing favorites. :lol:

I will skip the rawhides - thank you for your honest opinion on those. Besides, who needs them now that I have another option! I will let you know how it goes with the bone.

Have a wonderful weekend. Stay safe & healthy.

Hugs - Lisa & Sadie
Sadie is a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever ("Toller" for short). She eats Authority Grain Free Chicken & Pea kibble. To make sure she ingests the enzymes, we mix some No Sodium Chicken Broth and a small handful of meat - chicken, hamburger, pork - and stir it up with her dog food (she eats like a champ now!). With each meal she gets 5 scoops (1 1/4 tsp's) of Diane's Enzymes and a WonderLabs B-12 with Intrinsic factor. She gets 1 Proviable-DC probiotic per day. Diagnosed in September 2019 with EPI. She has some issues with dry skin we are dealing with now.

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