Not sure what is wrong after doing so well???

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Hoosier
Member
Posts: 38
Location: Greenfield
Country: United States
State: Indiana
Pet name: Shelby
My name: Sheila

Not sure what is wrong after doing so well???

Post by Hoosier » 15 Oct 2019, 16:38

Hello everyone lots has happened since I posted on the old forum. We had to pay to rest my 15 yr old Thunder just this past July. It was very sudden and I am still grieving over him. We now only have Shelby who has not been diagnosed with EPI but has a digestion problem is on enzymes and b-12 tablets. I think she was grieving over our other dog passing too. She seemed depressed all the time. She used to sleep in my room a lot and doesn't anymore. She used to poop 2x per day now only one and it is not very much either. I have been force feeding her because she will not eat her kibble with the enzyme. I tried to let her eat on her own but I gave in because I didn't want her to not eat and maybe upset her tummy. It made me think I was starving her. Anyway, I read that maybe I should cut back on the enzyme since she has been stable for a long time at least for a couple of years or longer now. She had gained weight up to 117# but I thought that was way to much and she was having trouble running so I put her on diet and she now weighs 96#. I am happy with this and she is still maintaining although I think she might have gained a few pounds back. She goes to the vet next month for her yearly. She has had her usual of ear infections mostly from yeast and still has black yeast on her belly. I cant get it to go away unless I put her on an oral antifungal for months. I don't like that because of the bad side effects which I think caused her the digestion problems she has now from when we had her on it years ago. She does not suffer from diarrhea but I am concerned in her only pooping once and it is very minimal. Not like her. She is not very active for the last few weeks either. She loves to play ball but now she will run only once then sit or lay down and not interested. She acts like she has no energy at all. I added some low salt French style green beans for some extra fiber and she is still only pooping once but more quantity. Thought that would help her but other than bigger poop no other changes. She was shaking her head so I had some Keflex left over enough for 10 days so she is on that now along with ear flush and she is not shaking her head as much now. So I know that is working for her.
I just don't know what is wrong with her. She has always pooped 2 times per day since she is fed 2 meals per day. AM I making a mistake by giving her less enzyme now? She gets 1.5 cups of kibble per meal 2 times per day which I was giving her 1.5 tsp of enzyme on each meal and incubating it for 30 minutes. I have always done it for 30 minutes. I cant remember if I have left anything out. Please any suggestion will be much appreciated. Her poops are still formed which is good. Thank you in advance.
I am Sheila and I am Shelby's mommy.
She is not EPI positive according to Dr. Barko from his TLI testing. But she does have a pancreas problem .
She is on 6x enzyme 1.5 tsp on each meal. She eats Forza 10 Sensitive Skin formula and gets 1.5 cups 2 x per day. She currently weighs just under 100 lbs. She takes B-12 (2)pills every other weekend. She suffers from yeast that I cannot get rid of. She gets 4 pills of antihistamine each day 2 with each meal.

Shelby left my world on November 19-2019 She will be forever missed and loved.

Barb
Staff
Posts: 918
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Not sure what is wrong after doing so well???

Post by Barb » 15 Oct 2019, 17:37

Hello and welcome (again) to you and Shelby. I am sorry she is not feeling well. I am also sorry for your loss of Thunder.

Are you giving Shelby the B12 with Intrinsic Factor? The ones from Wonderlabs? You probably are, since you followed the old Forum, but I'm just checking. Even though she doesn't have EPI, she might need the Intrinsic Factor in the Wonderlabs capsules for absorption.

Another thing you might ask your vet to check is her thyroid. Hypothyroidism presents with gaining weight and lack of energy. Also fur and skin issues. I am sure your vet will want to do blood work, but they don't always do the thyroid test automatically. It is easily managed with a daily pill.

Do you remember what her diagnosis was...you mentioned a digestion issue.

It's upsetting to see our pups have difficulties, so hang in there. Maybe you could move up her annual visit so you can get information sooner.

Barb

Hoosier
Member
Posts: 38
Location: Greenfield
Country: United States
State: Indiana
Pet name: Shelby
My name: Sheila

Re: Not sure what is wrong after doing so well???

Post by Hoosier » 15 Oct 2019, 19:18

Hi Barb, Yes she is on the B-12 with the factor from wonderlabs. The digestion issue has been diagnosed with IBD or pancreatitis. We do know that if I take her off the enzyme then she gets SIBO for sure and that took me a long time to get that stable. She has had that a couple of time in the last 4 years. She will eat almost anything she shouldn't. When my loving boy was alive she would eat his food sometimes when my back was turned or if he left any behind which he did most times. He was not a GSD. I got so worried that after I finished my post I made a vet appointment for tomorrow. They know I am a worried mommy and got her in right away. I will ask him about the thyroid and her heart. She is 9 years old and seems to be out of breath very easily too. She has never had the stamina I hear others talk about taking their dogs for a mile or more walk daily. She would have never lasted long enough for that even when she was young. Just wondering if any of this could be her grieving over Thunder. She was with him her whole life. She was never not with him. When we were gone he was still home with her. Just a thought.

I am also concerned that she is not having the bowel movements she used to. Less often and less amount. She also has this bump on her nose now too just in the last couple of days I think. To be honest I hadn't noticed it but the other half did. That's not like me to not notice something about her but I broke out in itchy hives this past Saturday and am still dealing with that so my attention has been distracted from Shelby the last few days. I will update when I know something. Thanks again Barb.
I am Sheila and I am Shelby's mommy.
She is not EPI positive according to Dr. Barko from his TLI testing. But she does have a pancreas problem .
She is on 6x enzyme 1.5 tsp on each meal. She eats Forza 10 Sensitive Skin formula and gets 1.5 cups 2 x per day. She currently weighs just under 100 lbs. She takes B-12 (2)pills every other weekend. She suffers from yeast that I cannot get rid of. She gets 4 pills of antihistamine each day 2 with each meal.

Shelby left my world on November 19-2019 She will be forever missed and loved.

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jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Not sure what is wrong after doing so well???

Post by jilbert57 » 15 Oct 2019, 21:00

Hi, so sorry to hear of the loss of your pup. Do you have test results by chance? I am wondering where the thought of pancreatitis comes in? If so that is a special diet.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

Hoosier
Member
Posts: 38
Location: Greenfield
Country: United States
State: Indiana
Pet name: Shelby
My name: Sheila

Re: Not sure what is wrong after doing so well???

Post by Hoosier » 16 Oct 2019, 06:03

Hi Jill, I am sorry it is not pancreatitis. It is either IBS or IBD. I first took Shelby to the vet over her black skin on her belly. She was put on Keflex and an antifungal pills for about 3 months. Then we took her off of them since she had been on them for a long time and with the bad side effects another vet agreed with that. Right after that is when Shelby started with the vomiting and diarrhea then losing weight. All the tests she has had , blood tests, ultra sound, TLI, all came back negative to everything. She started out with yellowish orange diarrhea. vomiting, gas, tummy noises, restless, loss of weight. The vet put her on powdered enzymes and metronidazole. Didn't help much then I found this site. Then I told him what I read here and asked for Tylan and ordered enzyme from Dianne. Changed her food from Natural Balance to Forza 10. She has been stable for about 3 years now although she has had sibo twice on those 3 years due to eating the other dogs food at times. This is a quick basic run down. She has not had diarrhea for years now. She gained all her weight back and then some . Matter of fact she gained too much weight.
I asked her Vet a couple of times what exactly is wrong with Shelby a name for it and he said he doesn't know. I told him I had to keep her on the enzyme or she gets sick again. He said to keep doing that since she was doing so well on it. So that's where I am with really not having a proper or a specific name or diagnosis. I have even taken her to a specialist for allergies for her yeast infection on her skin. She put her on a antibiotic and some steroid crème and antifungal wipes the antibiotic was only for 3 weeks. What helped her the most when her tummy gurgles is the Tylan for 45 days and her enzymes. I dont dare take her off the enzymes or she will get sick again. I don't give her Tylan all the time just the enzyme. The vet did say that something was wrong with her pancreas since she has trouble digesting her food and without the enzymes she gets SIBO.

So since she tests negative to EPI but yet she gets SIBO without the enzyme what could it be?
I am Sheila and I am Shelby's mommy.
She is not EPI positive according to Dr. Barko from his TLI testing. But she does have a pancreas problem .
She is on 6x enzyme 1.5 tsp on each meal. She eats Forza 10 Sensitive Skin formula and gets 1.5 cups 2 x per day. She currently weighs just under 100 lbs. She takes B-12 (2)pills every other weekend. She suffers from yeast that I cannot get rid of. She gets 4 pills of antihistamine each day 2 with each meal.

Shelby left my world on November 19-2019 She will be forever missed and loved.

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Not sure what is wrong after doing so well???

Post by Jean » 16 Oct 2019, 07:34

hi Sheila

I feel like a parrot at the moment, the black skin could be Cushings disease, I have mentioned this to other people !

and what about testing for EPI

ask the vet for an opinion on Cushings
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

User avatar
jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Not sure what is wrong after doing so well???

Post by jilbert57 » 16 Oct 2019, 10:40

Thank you for the clarification. Just wondering if you have ever tried any Zymox line of products? It might be worth a try on the skin issue.

https://www.zymox.com/

You can order it from Amazon and I have found all their products highly effective. They have a dermatology line.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

Hoosier
Member
Posts: 38
Location: Greenfield
Country: United States
State: Indiana
Pet name: Shelby
My name: Sheila

Re: Not sure what is wrong after doing so well???

Post by Hoosier » 16 Oct 2019, 12:58

Went to the Vet and now waiting on blood work results and a culture taken from the place on her nose. he temp was up just a slight at 101.8 and her weight is 101.8#. She was so good at the Vets. They did a ultra sound and nothing jumped out of concern. Ears looked fine. Part of the blood test is aT4 (Thyroid) among other things. Now is the waiting game. Like any mommy I am worried about her.
I am Sheila and I am Shelby's mommy.
She is not EPI positive according to Dr. Barko from his TLI testing. But she does have a pancreas problem .
She is on 6x enzyme 1.5 tsp on each meal. She eats Forza 10 Sensitive Skin formula and gets 1.5 cups 2 x per day. She currently weighs just under 100 lbs. She takes B-12 (2)pills every other weekend. She suffers from yeast that I cannot get rid of. She gets 4 pills of antihistamine each day 2 with each meal.

Shelby left my world on November 19-2019 She will be forever missed and loved.

User avatar
Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Not sure what is wrong after doing so well???

Post by Jean » 16 Oct 2019, 14:36

HUGE HUGS FROM LIVERPOOL UK
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Hoosier
Member
Posts: 38
Location: Greenfield
Country: United States
State: Indiana
Pet name: Shelby
My name: Sheila

Re: Not sure what is wrong after doing so well???

Post by Hoosier » 16 Oct 2019, 20:58

The black skin is from yeast infection that I cant get rid of unless I put her on a oral antifungal medication which she was on before and it helped but never completely cleared it up. She was on that and Keflex for around 3 months solid and then she started with the yellow diarrhea , vomiting, losing weight.
Yes she has been tested twice for EPI her TLI was 6.4 first time then 5.19 from Dr. Barko for some study he was doing. So both times TLI was too high for EPI but she has to be on the enzyme in her food or she gets SIBO and diarrhea. The enzyme has saved her.
I was really emotional today at the Vets since we were put in the same exam room as back in July when I had to put my Thunder to sleep. Very hard for me today I had been crying all morning thinking of him. So after we got in the room we talked to the tech then my other half went to the back with Shelby to have her blood drawn and get a sample of the place on her nose. When they come back I found out the vet had also done a ultra sound on an area that we had found a small lump on her left side towards the back. Nothing caught his eye to be concerned about he said. He said he had looked in her ears then we talked some more about could she be mourning then I found out her temp was up just a little. Through out all of this I forgot to ask him if he listened to her lungs and heart. I am so upset with myself for not asking that because everything was done in the back area and not in the exam room in front of me. I wont let that happen again either. I asked my bf who went back with her and he said so much was happening he is not sure if the Vet listened to her heart and lungs but he didn't seem him do it. So needless to say I am upset with him too. Anyway thanks for letting me vent. after putting my boy of 15 years to rest a short time ago and now my 9 yr old baby is not wanting to do anything but lay around I am so worried and upset. I have to be more alert next time and I will never be put in that same room again at least not so soon. This waiting for results is not fun. If something is wrong with her heart I am hoping blood test would give some indication. Yes I did talk to him about Cushing's disease today but he said if she was not drinking a lot more water he would not think that is it. She is not drinking more water more likely less water. Thanks you all for being here again for Shelby and me.
I am Sheila and I am Shelby's mommy.
She is not EPI positive according to Dr. Barko from his TLI testing. But she does have a pancreas problem .
She is on 6x enzyme 1.5 tsp on each meal. She eats Forza 10 Sensitive Skin formula and gets 1.5 cups 2 x per day. She currently weighs just under 100 lbs. She takes B-12 (2)pills every other weekend. She suffers from yeast that I cannot get rid of. She gets 4 pills of antihistamine each day 2 with each meal.

Shelby left my world on November 19-2019 She will be forever missed and loved.

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