EPI Welsh Corgi - Vet is stumped

[MomofWinston]

Hello -
I have a newly diagnosed 2 and a half year old Welsh Corgi who was diagnosed with EPI about two weeks ago. Have had him on enzymes for 8 days now, as well as B12 and antibiotics for SIBO. Stool is still very light, brownish-greenish, loose or diarrhea. I should have seen a better result by now, shouldn't I? Using 1 tea spoon of enzymes per cup of food, incubated, tried 20 min and 30 min of incubation, with no difference in stool. Also upped enzymes in last couple of days to see if that makes a difference, but it does not.
Am I expecting results too soon?

[jilbert57]

Hi and welcome. What food in specific are you feeding?

Jill

[Olesia711]

Hi and welcome to our EPI family. SO sorry your dog was diagnosed with EPI but once you find the right balance of the recommended protocol, things will fall into place and that is what we will do our best to help you with.

If you can answer Jill's question and let us know what brand name food you are giving, that will help us quite a bit.

In the past, after a couple of weeks, if things aren't improving as expected, that was when we recommended a course of Tylan antibiotic to take care of SID that is out of control.... jsut a FYI... every EPI dog has SID (formerly called SIBO)... the trick is to keep it under good control.

What you are describing is short transit time (green poo) which sometimes corrects itself, and sometimes antibiotics are needed.

Nowadays we don't automatically reach for the antibiotics (even thou sometimes we may have to) but first, we try alternative things to get the EPI/SID under better control. First we try to improve things with food (after trying to adjust the enzymes) and then we try slippery elm... and then if things still have not improved.... we suggest trying Tylan

One of the things you might want to try (after we learn what food you are feeding and if maybe you should change....) anyway... what might help is some slippery elm powder. (not capsules!) how much does your pup weigh?

[MomofWinston]

Hello Jill and Olesia711 -

What do I feed my EPI dog? A home cooked (nothing raw) mesh of

1/4 vegies (sweet potatoe and broccholi or spinach)
1/2 meat (chicken with some pork, innards)
1/4 oats
mixing in some bone meal, vitamin/mineral powder, eggs.

He gets the equivalent of 1000 calories, which is about 4 cups daily. He should be a 30-32 lb dog. Currently he weighs 25 lbs.
We add one tea-spoon of enzymes (incubated for 20 minutes - have also tried 30 minutes with no visible difference) for each cup of volume, fed three times a day.

He is on Tylan antibiotics, 1/8 teaspoon twice a day for 30 days. We are in day 10 of this regimen. Also on weekly B12 shots for six weeks.

His lab work came back
TLI <1.0 reference range 5-35 mg/L (EPI test)
Cobalamin <150 reference range 249-733 pg/mL (B12)
Folate 15.5 reference range 6.5-11.5 ng/mL (SIBO)

I would hope to see some firm brown poops now, and I am not. So I am concerned that something else is going on.

Any advice?

Ursula.

[Olesia711]

Ursula,

WOW.... you are really feeding the best of the best. Lucky pup!!!!!
Real good diet... but.....might want to try a little exchanging.
And.... I am also assuming you mean you add 1 tsp of enzymes per 1 cup of food correct?

First thing i would change is to swap out the oatmeal with sweet potato
See if that helps. (watch the poos for about 3 to 5 days)

If a little better but not quite there....THen you can also try adding a little slippery elm powder. ... for your dog 1/4 tsp or even jsut 1/8 tsp might help... https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K97024

If still not optimal after watching the above tweaks for 3 to 5 days.... then .... swap out the broccoli / spinach (which are both very good, but with some dogs is gives them too much gas and upset tummy).... so maybe try squash / green beans instead.

See if that makes a difference....

Since you are on day 10 of Tylan...... you should have seen a difference already....it could be that that Tylan is not addressing the particular type of bacteria issues going on.... in which case you can try Metronidazole...... but then again.... you mentioned that the poo is brown and green.. the green part is the indication that the transit time is too short. Usually this happens when there is bacterial imbalance. ... so it might be possible that you might need a different antibiotic... BUT....... in all honestly, i would hold off on trying another antibiotic until after you tried different foods sources... to see if that is the problem.....SOmetimes the least little change in a food item can make all the difference.

I am also guessing that you are not feeding any snack in between...

You can also try a probiotic.... but make sure it has a prebiotic with it... or be sure to give some slippery elm powder with it(as slippery elm has some prebiotic properties too). For a Probiotic, at this time i would suggest Proviable.

Sorry this is not straight forward, but this is how we find out what works best for our pups, trying things one at a time..... tedious, but it works.

[jilbert57]

Ursula, that diet sounds yummy!
I agree with Olesia on her above suggestions. It is some tinkering around to get things aligned. The oats can be an issue. Grains can interfere with the efficacy of the enzymes.

You might also start a food/med/poop diary. It really helps!

https://epi4dogs.com/epi-log/

Jill

[MomofWinston]

Thank you. That sounds like really good advice.
I will replace the oats with sweet potatoe, to start.
The EPI log is great.
My husband and I had created our own log, but the one on the Web site is even better.
I will report.
Ursula.

[Madelon]

Hi Ursula - welcome to our EPI family. You've already received great advice so I won't muddy the waters. I do want to add, however, when you are done with the weakly B12 shots, please do not stop supplementing B12. EPI dogs need B12 supplementing for life as they are not able to maintain their B12 without supplementing. After the 6 weeks of shots you need to find the right dose and frequency of B12 for your dog. A lot of us switch over to the WonderLabs Pet Factor B12 pills after the shots as they are very inexpensive and easy to administer - they also have intrinsic factor which helps with absorption of the B12 https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688.

Keep us posted on how things are going.