Dog with EPI and IBD

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Ben j v
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Posts: 20
Country: Australia
State: Washington
Pet name: Rorschak
My name: Ben

Re: Dog with EPI and IBD

Post by Ben j v » 04 Jan 2020, 02:25

Gocha, thanks jill.
He is doing alot better now that i stopped the kibble.
I have been sprinkling the creon over his food lately just to get it to disperse faster.

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Madelon
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Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Dog with EPI and IBD

Post by Madelon » 04 Jan 2020, 09:33

Hi Ben. I'm glad you got the B12 pills as it is a crucial part of managing EPI. If I remember right you cannot get the Royal Canin Ultamino food correct? Have you tried Slippery Elm Bark powder? It's a prebiotic mucilage that coats the gastrointestinal tract and is used a lot in treating dogs with IBD and we use it a lot in managing EPI. My boy (EPI not IBD but he does have food sensitivities) has been on slippery elm for probably 3years now - very inexpensive and safe to give. Here's a link to our information on SE and dosing instructions - be sure to mix with 1-2 tablespoons water and put on food just before serving https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/. You can order on Amazon - not sure about getting it through your customs - or you should be able to find it at a health food store - just be sure to get the powder not capsules.

Eating a rotten kangaroo - poor little pup!! That would definitely upset the tummy!

Faye - thank you for chiming in with such kind words and encouragement.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

Ben j v
Member
Posts: 20
Country: Australia
State: Washington
Pet name: Rorschak
My name: Ben

Re: Dog with EPI and IBD

Post by Ben j v » 04 Jan 2020, 18:31

Hi Madelon.
I believe we can get royal canin ultimo here, but its not alled ultimo in australia, our vet looked it up for us, so i will ask for a bag of that when i do his next food order for sure.
I think we will try slipery elm, but our vet is happy to leave him on tylan if need be. He has several patients perminently on tylan.

He does seem to have improved alot since i stopped his zd kibbke. No more runny tummy, minimal gas and rumbles.

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Madelon
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Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Dog with EPI and IBD

Post by Madelon » 05 Jan 2020, 20:44

Hey there. Glad you can get the Ultamino there - Olesia always says with IBD if one of the prescription hydrolyzed foods doesn't work to try another and the Ultamino seems to work best with EPI dogs that also have IBD. As for Slippery Elm - you can use it while on Tylan - my boy is on both right now. Just be sure to only make one change at a time. If you try the Ultamino don't try the Slippery Elm and vice versa until you've had about a week or so to see the results of one change before you make another. Hoping things improve. Please keep us posted.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

Ben j v
Member
Posts: 20
Country: Australia
State: Washington
Pet name: Rorschak
My name: Ben

Re: Dog with EPI and IBD

Post by Ben j v » 07 Jan 2020, 22:12

just back from the vet, i gave him 2 poop samples for him to check if the creon dosage is ok. He is reasonably happy with the look of the poop, despite it being a bit yellow and one being a bit pasty. One poop was alot better than the other.

I did order some royal canin, but apparently i ordered the wrong one. (Hyperallergenic instead of analergic).
The vet explained that we can give him royal canin, or zd, but never both as if he were to develop a problem with one of those we need a place to go, which will be the other. I guess i should have consulted him first.

So for now we will stay on zd cans, as we have about 13 trays of it. Mabey down the track we will make the change and see how he does. But for now he is doing fairly well so we wont change anything major, like his diet.
I will start giving him wonderlabs b12 when it arrives, and see how that changes things.
He is due to run out of tylan soon though, so il have to hold off on the b12 mabey, to see the results of the tylan stopping. Not great timing.

We decided not to put him through the blood test today, just to save him a bit of trauma. He really isnt great with the vet, but has been getting alot better lately, so since il be giving him the b12 anyway il just see what changes over time.
(In hindsight i regret this and should have just gotten it done) his last test was from april 2019 when he was in poor condition, it was
Folate: 23.4 nmol/litre 10.3 ug/litre
B12: 125 pmol/litre 170ng/litre

He weight 23.2 kg today (bearing in mind he could have eated 1.4kg food and not pooped yet + drank some water) still well in the right direction and looking great. He was about 19kg when i first posted on this forum.

So now we just have a little fine tuning to do it seems.
I will order some slippery elm as well, not sure when best to give it to him with his tylan running out and starting him on b12.

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Madelon
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Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Dog with EPI and IBD

Post by Madelon » 09 Jan 2020, 21:43

Hi there Ben. With the description of the poop it does sound like there's still a flare up of SID happening. With Tylan you want to slowly wean off - if you stop cold turkey we've seen in a lot of cases where the SID comes back and then another round of Tylan is needed. SO, if it's been 45 days go ahead and slowly wean off. Just reduce the dosage at each meal slightly for a few days, then reduce a slight more for a few days and so on.

With regard to the B12 - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE start the pills as soon as you get them - do not wait until you are off of Tylan. B12 is critical with EPI management and is not one of the things you need to change by itself like we usually recommend.

Your vet is correct in that you should not give the Z/D food and the RC Ultamino at the same time.

Hang in there sounds like you're on the right path
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

Ben j v
Member
Posts: 20
Country: Australia
State: Washington
Pet name: Rorschak
My name: Ben

Re: Dog with EPI and IBD

Post by Ben j v » 09 Jan 2020, 22:25

His tylan came in capsules, he was getting 1 with each meal.
So i started giving him 1 per day, and from there we were thinking of going 1 every 2 days to wean off.
Should we instead open a capsule to giva a smaller ammount with each meal?we will give the b12 straight away, once it arrives. Same with the slippery elm perhaps? i wont be home for 2 or 3 weeks so il get my housemates, who the dogs belong to, read this.

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Dog with EPI and IBD

Post by jilbert57 » 10 Jan 2020, 09:38

I would open a capsule and empty it into a teaspoon to see what dose you are working with. Then lower it from there.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Madelon
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Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Dog with EPI and IBD

Post by Madelon » 10 Jan 2020, 13:44

I'm not familiar with the capsule form of Tylan - it's usually a powder in a bottle but I would do what Jill suggested.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Dog with EPI and IBD

Post by jilbert57 » 10 Jan 2020, 15:25

Are your Tylan capsules 25mg?
Here is the dose chart:

https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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