New Member Introduction- Help needed

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
IanW

New Member Introduction- Help needed

Post by IanW » 13 Nov 2019, 03:33

Hi all,
I have a 7yo Flat Coated Retriever bitch, Jazz, who we thought for years had a sensitive tummy. After numerous vets visits and a recent, lengthy bout of sickness including weight loss we have finally had her diagnosed for EPI, with a Tli of 1.3 and all other measures normal. She started a course of Lypex last night, 2 capsules sprinkled in her evening kibble (Purina EN) and overnight her upset tum seems to have got worse, lots of rumbling and flatulence. Her stools this morning were very loose, almost liquid.
Appreciate these are early days but any knowledge of this drug or other advice would really help. Our local vets are a bit clueless so considering pushing for a referral ASAP.

Thanks, Ian

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: New Member Introduction- Help needed

Post by Jean » 13 Nov 2019, 07:08

Hi Ian and Jazz

where are you in UK

We are in Liverpool

if you want to talk by phone

0151 726 1468

I am afraid that the Lypex isnt a course, its for life, but there are less expensive enzymes around

what about antibiotics for the tummy rumbles

EPI was known as Shepherd tummy for along time and dogs were PTS as the vets didnt have a clue

this is the ingredients for Purina EN: Maize Rice*, Maize Gluten Meal*, Dehydrated Poultry Protein*, Dried Beet Pulp, Digest, Coconut Oil* (4%), Minerals, Animal Fat, Mono and Diglycerides, Soya Oil, Fish Oil, Inulin, *Highly digestible ingredients.

Nutrition: Analytical Constituents, Protein: 24.0%, Fat content: 10.5%, Crude ash: 6.0%, Crude fibres: 2.0%, Sodium: 0.30%, Potassium: 0.65%, Medium chain fatty acids: 2.0%, Additives: Nutritional Additives IU/kg: Vit A: 30 000, Vit D3: 1 000, Vit E: 560,mg/kg: Vit C: 140, Ferrous sulphate monohydrate: 240, Calcium iodate anhydrous: 3.4, Cupric sulphate pentahydrate: 45, Manganous sulphate monohydrate: 100, Zinc sulphate monohydrate: 410, Sodium selenite: 0.28.ents of Purina EN

There is no need for a special vet diet for EPI unless there is another condition

how many meals do you feed per day ?

did the vets tell you that no food of any sort can be given without enzymes ?

we advise grain and rice free, low fibre, most of our dogs are intollerant of chicken and/or its derivatives

Anyway, I am at the end of the phone

keep a journal on everything you do daily

jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

IanW

Re: New Member Introduction- Help needed

Post by IanW » 13 Nov 2019, 13:11

Hi Jean,
Will give you a call over the weekend if thats ok ?

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: New Member Introduction- Help needed

Post by Jean » 13 Nov 2019, 13:24

Ian , whenever, just leave your number if I am not at home, or tell me when, so I will be

speak soon


Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Patsy
Member
Posts: 264
Country: United Kingdom - England

Re: New Member Introduction- Help needed

Post by Patsy » 13 Nov 2019, 19:17

Hello to you and Jazz from Sheffield. Flat coated retrievers are beautiful. At last you have the diagnosis , so you will gradually get a full return to condition , once the effects of malnutrition are beaten. It seems heavy going at first, but becomes a routine.
Enzymes are for ever, with occasional bouts of B12 deficiency and SID/SIBO.
Lypex is very good to start with because it is tasteless. You will need at least two per meal, as you said. It’s best to feed three meals per day at first, as you need to feed an extra50% of food to help get up to correct weight. That’s why most us us have to use a cheaper option, unless insurance will pay.
Rumbling and smelly farts are definitely a small intestine bug. As soon as my dog started , I went to my vet and requested antibiotics. As Jean will explain, tylan is not on most vets radar, but oxytetracycline worked fine for us, and it has to be double the standard treatment length, ie 4 weeks.
Jazz is certain to need this before you can expect a good poo.
The Purina food is not suitable for epi. The cereals feed the bacteria= diarrhoea. What food did you use before that? We tend to avoid any chicken ingredients as well. Other meat and fish should be ok. Many brands however smuggle chicken into the mix. I couldn’t find anything suitable for us in shops.
My favourite was from Millie’s Wolfheart, online. There is a wide choice of grain free food with different meat/fish, and they are happy to discuss them. Get a small bag at first.
As you know, few vets have seen epi, it is rare in the UK, outside of German shepherds. See if yours is reading up the research, and be polite but pro active. You will need a long relationship with one. You are employing them, they aren’t doing you a favour . When my good vet left, I was desperate, and took a while to find another one. I actually rang up to speak to the senior vets. The older vets were much better, the young ones are too focussed on unnecessary tests, and don’t see that the side effects of the epi condition will actually repair themselves without extra drugs or expensive procedures. Also it helps to request seeing the same person.
Should you want a referral, Jean will advise who is best, wherever you live.
Four cornerstones
Enzymes
Food. Low fibre
B12 at 600
Antibiotics for SID
Springer spaniel Marti had Epi, PLE , MMM just to confuse me. She lived till 12yrs, chubby and happy despite eight years of epi.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.

IanW

Re: New Member Introduction- Help needed

Post by IanW » 15 Nov 2019, 13:41

Many thanks indeed for all the advice. She has made no progress this week on the standard Lypex dose and when I tried to increase yesterday she ended up vomiting everything up during the night. I now have a referral to a specialist on Monday so fingers crossed 🐾☹️

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jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2089
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: New Member Introduction- Help needed

Post by jilbert57 » 15 Nov 2019, 17:20

Will be waiting to hear what the specialist has to say.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

User avatar
Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: New Member Introduction- Help needed

Post by Jean » 16 Nov 2019, 04:10

GIVE ME A RING AND WE WILL TALK IT THROUGH
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

User avatar
Patsy
Member
Posts: 264
Country: United Kingdom - England

Re: New Member Introduction- Help needed

Post by Patsy » 16 Nov 2019, 09:11

I hope you catch Jean on the phone , she’s not the least bit intimidating! You name it, Kara had it, and Jeans vet is one of the top gastrointestinal experts in the country.
From my experience, Lypex never caused vomiting, so there may be something else happening.it could be a gut infection, acid indigestion, the food or something else. There could even be a rare pork allergy.
Lypex, like most epi products, is not a drug, but natural gut enzymes, made from pigs pancreas. It doesn’t cause violent reactions. Sometimes a large dose can cause too much digestive activity in the intestines, resulting in diarrhoea. Vomiting is from the stomach, where there is a lot of acid.(Hydrochloric) Jean knows all about treating that.
There are over the counter remedies for acid indigestion/heartburn, but check with Jean. it can be very painful for humans and dogs.
With epi, patience is essential. Each niggly thing can be fixed in turn.
Springer spaniel Marti had Epi, PLE , MMM just to confuse me. She lived till 12yrs, chubby and happy despite eight years of epi.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.

Barb
Staff
Posts: 918
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: New Member Introduction- Help needed

Post by Barb » 17 Nov 2019, 16:11

Welcome! You are in good hands with Jean and Patsy in the UK. Try not to feel too overwhelmed. It will get better. Jean and Patsy will help you get there. Your pup is lucky to have you.

Barb

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