Trainee Police Dog Rana - UK

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Jenna

Trainee Police Dog Rana - UK

Post by Jenna » 23 Nov 2019, 01:14

Hi Everyone!

I’m so glad I stumbled across this forum! Please help!

I’m a Police Dog Handler in the south of England & and I have a 15 month old GSD named Rana. When we met back in September this year she was fit and healthy. She was fed on Simpsons sensitive puppy food, and little by little I changed her over to Royal Canin GSD professional. Her stools appeared to improve (although they weren’t bad to begin with) and she looked good. After about 6 weeks on the 10th Nov she had a bit of a runny bum but I thought little of it. On the Mon am the following day she was passing some blood with her stools. I took her to the vets and a long story short she’s had a round of anti biotics, 2 different anti inflammatories, some probiotic paste, royal canin gastro food ans an ultra sound. The ultra sound didn’t show anything concerning other than her lymph nodes are slightly inflamed.

They have done the TLI test and her score was 7. She’s dropped to around 29kg from 33kgs when I got her. She’s still bouncing off the walls and running around with bees in her head. The current thinking is that she may have EPI and they would like to try her on Lypex to see how well she responds.

She really is a cracking dog and she lives to work. She’s so responsive and focussed on me and I just love training with her. I love her to bits already, even if she does chin and headbutt me frequently! She’s my tenacious pocket rocket and we’re an excellent match.

I really want to continue with her (if of course, this is the right and best decision for her). The Bosses will have a different point of view & have different concerns such as the long term cost, her ability to protect me, perform her role and the future risk of her being non operational at times through illness.

Any help or advice would be wonderful, and if there are any working GSDs out there with the condition I would love to talk to you! I’m speaking with the powers that be on Monday, and I would love to be able to show them that this is possible and she’s worth it!

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jilbert57
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Re: Trainee Police Dog Rana - UK

Post by jilbert57 » 23 Nov 2019, 09:00

Hi Jenna and welcome to the forum. Love Rana's picture.
With a result of 7 she is not clinically EPI. Do you know if they tested her B12 and folate also?
There are folks on here from the UK I will contact who will know the costs better where you are.

Here is a read on options in the UK:

https://epi4dogs.com/epi-quick-guides-outside-usa/

JILL
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Jean
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Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Trainee Police Dog Rana - UK

Post by Jean » 23 Nov 2019, 09:31

hi

i am from Liverpool

firstly why the sensitive food from being a puppy

a result of 7 could in time be EPI, was the test 8-12 hours food fasted ?

i see no reason why you cannot have an EPI dog as a working dog once they are stable

personally I would ditch the foods you are using and use frain free

Lypex is a great enzyme, and might help, but i feel the food is not tollerable by your dog

if you would like to talk about this feel free

0151 726 1468
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Jenna

Re: Trainee Police Dog Rana - UK

Post by Jenna » 23 Nov 2019, 09:48

Hi Jill and Jean, thank you so much for your responses.

I think all of the pups from the scheme are fed a sensitive food. I have had 3 pups in total thus far and all three were on Simpson’s puppy sensitive. I was told of no reason why she couldn’t be transitioned to Royal Canin as that is my forces brand of choice. I didn’t see any negative reactions following the switch until weeks later. But perhaps these things take time?

The bloods for the TLI test we’re taken pre ultra sound for which she was sedated and starved for around 20hrs by the time they got to her that day.

Feeding her 4x a day seems to have been really beneficial and I think I can see weight creeping back on her. She’s passed two fairly well formed stools so far today with just a hint of blood around the outside. I have a phone full of poo pictures!

I’ll talk to the vets tomorrow about revisiting the choice of food if it is EPI they are suspecting. I guess changing too much at once for diagnostic purposes could prove problematic?

Is it common for there to be blood present in the stools of EPI dogs? I haven’t seen anything mentioned about it in all that I’ve read so far?

Jenna

Re: Trainee Police Dog Rana - UK

Post by Jenna » 23 Nov 2019, 09:51

Also, what food/brand would you suggest for a working dog in the UK? I read something about wild Alaskan salmon oil being beneficial too?

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Jean
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Location: South Liverpool
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Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Trainee Police Dog Rana - UK

Post by Jean » 23 Nov 2019, 10:17

What colour is the blood, and is if full of mucous
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Jenna

Re: Trainee Police Dog Rana - UK

Post by Jenna » 23 Nov 2019, 11:06

The blood is fresh looking and the mucus is there but minimal.

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Patsy
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Re: Trainee Police Dog Rana - UK

Post by Patsy » 23 Nov 2019, 12:07

Re blood in poo, it is not an epi symptom, because it signifies a sore part of the gut. Epi is the pancreas problem causing the lack of digestive enzymes. But it does happen as well.
Jeans question is relevant because bright blood comes from the bum end of the large intestines, and dark red from the top, the small intestine or stomach.

My cocker, non-epi, had this, bright red, and the vet christened it haemorrhagic enteritis , meaning bleeding sore gut, and offered antibiotics which didn’t work. I followed advice here and used slippery elm from Holland and Barratt for a week, and it healed up. The theory is that it makes the gut produce a protective slimy coating, so that the sores heal up, and the spasms calm down. If there’s a lot of sores , it could be IBD, but you’ve tried anti- inflammatories. Something is certainly causing irritation.
Some Conditions require fibre, some ban most fibres. . This is where we come full circle and need to know which end the bleeding comes from.
Feeding...until questions are cleared up, I can’t say. My starving epi dog did very well on tinned Chappie till some allergies occurred. I’ve seen RSPCA tv programmes with box loads of Chappie in the storerooms. Currently my healthy dogs do perfect poos on Butchers. All commercial dog foods have to meet legal criteria on recipe analysis.
Working dog food is tax free and cheaper, with maybe more protein and carbs. Your pupil needs to fill up on extra portions generally, so maybe50% more in the four meal plan you’ve started.

See how things go , before vets start being too complicated.

I changed back to wet dog food because I think it is easier to digest . Less strain on guts and the fluid balance needed with making kibble soft. I compare it with eating dry breakfast cereal or dry pot noodles!
Springer spaniel Marti had Epi, PLE , MMM just to confuse me. She lived till 12yrs, chubby and happy despite eight years of epi.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.

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Madelon
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Pet name: Doc

Re: Trainee Police Dog Rana - UK

Post by Madelon » 23 Nov 2019, 22:24

Hi and welcome to our EPI family - sorry for my delay in responding. Please know that we have had several EPI Police K-9 dogs and they have all thrived and a few have been the most OUTSTANDING police dogs for their department - way beyond the normal police dogs. With a TLI of 7, while your dog is not clinically EPI. your dog may be headed towards EPI and you tested early. My solid black GSD was tested at 3 mos and his TLI was 16 - he started losing weight at 10 mos old and at 13 mos old his TLI was less than .4 - it takes time for the pancreas to atrophy.

Was the B12 tested? If so, what was the score? In the US I have learned that GSD are prone to low B12 and stomach issues - if the B12 was less than 600 I recommend getting the B12 pills with Intrinsic Factor from Chemeyes. If the poops are bad, you might try Slippery Elm bark powder - there's a page on our website with the dosage instructions. You might also try Chemeyes enzymes for EPI and see if it helps.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.


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