New member: Daisy's story

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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faye grimm
Member
Posts: 30
Location: Rogue Valley Oregon
Country: United States
State: Oregon
Pet name: Daisy
My name: faye

Re: New member: Daisy's story

Post by faye grimm » 12 Jan 2020, 12:42

As I mentioned I had Daisy's cobalum and folate test done on Monday Jan 6 and waited all day Friday for the results.
So the vet called but after 5 so I had given up and missed her call and just got a message.
She said the results came back and Daisy's cobalum was normal sindicating no small intestinal overgrowth.. YAY!
But her folate was low though not drastic and Daisy would be needing B12 supplementation.
I will talk with the Doc on Monday.
She mentions monthly injections and a supplement in her food.
From what you all have told me tylan is the right supplement.
But most of you are dealing with both cobalum and folate issues so I want to be sure this is appropriate for her condition.
I will post the numbers when I get them along with the doctors specific recommendations.
Daisy and I live in rural southern Oregon. In June of 2015 I saw someone selling 5 week old puppies from a van and I swear I was "only looking" when Daisy's head popped up from the back of the box and she jumped across her liter mates straight to me, got up on her hind legs and started licking my face.
She had just chosen me. The guy wanted $100 a pup. I told him I only had $50. He said no way.
I replied, "This is my dog now. Take it or leave it. But she is coming home with me."
So I gave the man his $50 and we have been joined at the hip every since ...

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jilbert57
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Posts: 1080
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: New member: Daisy's story

Post by jilbert57 » 12 Jan 2020, 14:17

Hi Faye,
Serum Cobalamin is the test for B12 value. Your EPI pup needs to be at 600 or higher. If your vet recommended weekly shots it is regular B12 shots. The food supplement would also be to raise the B12 level. We recommend:
https://epi4dogs.com/b12-protocol/ the capsules with Intrinsic Factor by Wonderlabs.

Folate level can be an indication of Small Intestinal Dysbiosis Tylan is what we recommend if SID is present.



Please let us know when you get test results from the vet.

Jill
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 14, TJ is a 5 year old Jack Russell.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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faye grimm
Member
Posts: 30
Location: Rogue Valley Oregon
Country: United States
State: Oregon
Pet name: Daisy
My name: faye

Re: New member: Daisy's story

Post by faye grimm » 12 Jan 2020, 15:04

OK, I listened to the doc's message again and I had it reversed. :oops:
Daisy's folate is normal - her Cobalamin is low

I explored the link and the two forms of Vit B12, thank you.
PET Factor B-12 w/ Intrinsic Factor specifically mentioned: Effective EPI ( Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency ) regimen.

I am wondering if an initial injection to get things going might be wise and then using the oral supplement I listed.

I'll be back with specifics on Monday.
Daisy and I live in rural southern Oregon. In June of 2015 I saw someone selling 5 week old puppies from a van and I swear I was "only looking" when Daisy's head popped up from the back of the box and she jumped across her liter mates straight to me, got up on her hind legs and started licking my face.
She had just chosen me. The guy wanted $100 a pup. I told him I only had $50. He said no way.
I replied, "This is my dog now. Take it or leave it. But she is coming home with me."
So I gave the man his $50 and we have been joined at the hip every since ...

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Madelon
President
Posts: 1132
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: New member: Daisy's story

Post by Madelon » 13 Jan 2020, 20:31

Hi Faye. Yes you could definitely get a shot to get things going and order the Pet Factor B12 from WonderLabs - use code EPI4DOGS15 at checkout and you'll get a 15% discount. Some EPI dogs do better with methylcobalamin (in the WonderLabs pills) than cyanocobalamin and the WonderLabs pills have Intrinsic Factor which helps with B12 absorption. This may be part of why you're having issues with appetite/eating.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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faye grimm
Member
Posts: 30
Location: Rogue Valley Oregon
Country: United States
State: Oregon
Pet name: Daisy
My name: faye

Re: New member: Daisy's story

Post by faye grimm » 13 Jan 2020, 21:56

I picked up a hard copy of Daisy's tests but have not spoken with the vet

Folate = 7.8 Reference range 7.5 - 24.0

Cobalamine + <150 L Reference range 250-900

Vet recomended a product called Cobalequin FOR MEDIUM to LARGE DOGS
45 tablets for $39 .. yikes!

but I am going to go with Wonderlabs PET Factor B-12 w/ Intrinsic Factor since this one specifies EPI treatment unless any think I should get TRINFAC-B Intrinsic Factor Vitamin B12 as Methylcobalamin
Both have Methylcobalamin
Does anyone think I should I ask for a B12 shot while I am waiting for my order?

Do Daisy's numbers suggest anything else to you I should be aware of?
Her folate is low but still in range so I guess she does not have SID

I will hold off placing the order till I hear back from someone just to be sure.

Also do you think I can/should go back to using the sprouted Flora4 and/or Icelandic kelp now?
What about a squirt of salmon oil?
Or anything else?
thank you
Daisy and I live in rural southern Oregon. In June of 2015 I saw someone selling 5 week old puppies from a van and I swear I was "only looking" when Daisy's head popped up from the back of the box and she jumped across her liter mates straight to me, got up on her hind legs and started licking my face.
She had just chosen me. The guy wanted $100 a pup. I told him I only had $50. He said no way.
I replied, "This is my dog now. Take it or leave it. But she is coming home with me."
So I gave the man his $50 and we have been joined at the hip every since ...

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jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 1080
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: New member: Daisy's story

Post by jilbert57 » 13 Jan 2020, 23:00

I would definitely hold off on the sprouted product as well as salmon oil.

I would look at the B12 shot recommendation protocol from TAMU:

https://epi4dogs.com/b12-in-brief-2/

and go with the shots and supplement with one of the oral B12 caps recommended here.

Jill
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 14, TJ is a 5 year old Jack Russell.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

User avatar
faye grimm
Member
Posts: 30
Location: Rogue Valley Oregon
Country: United States
State: Oregon
Pet name: Daisy
My name: faye

Re: New member: Daisy's story

Post by faye grimm » 14 Jan 2020, 11:10

Last night Daisy threw up her dinner maybe a couple of hours later.
It did not look digested much. I did not forgot to add enzymes but I used organic beef instead of turkey.
Could that be an issue? I have given her beef every so often before.
This is the first time she has thrown up .. at least in my presence.
she does spend a fair amount of time on the property when I am not present so I cannot be sure if she has done this before or not.
We live rural and there are many places where she can poop and possibly vomit that I will never see.
Daisy and I live in rural southern Oregon. In June of 2015 I saw someone selling 5 week old puppies from a van and I swear I was "only looking" when Daisy's head popped up from the back of the box and she jumped across her liter mates straight to me, got up on her hind legs and started licking my face.
She had just chosen me. The guy wanted $100 a pup. I told him I only had $50. He said no way.
I replied, "This is my dog now. Take it or leave it. But she is coming home with me."
So I gave the man his $50 and we have been joined at the hip every since ...

User avatar
jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 1080
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: New member: Daisy's story

Post by jilbert57 » 14 Jan 2020, 11:39

I don't think a one off vomiting is something to worry about. However should it keep up and your pup is acting poorly it might be cause for concern.

Jill
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 14, TJ is a 5 year old Jack Russell.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

User avatar
Madelon
President
Posts: 1132
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: New member: Daisy's story

Post by Madelon » 14 Jan 2020, 12:24

Hi Faye. I think Daisy might have food sensitivities. I'm a little surprised your vet did not mention this given the Folate number. While it's in the reference range it's on the low side and low Folate is an indication of food sensitivities. If I were you I would try a limited ingredient food where there is a single protein and very few other ingredients or even a prescription hydrolyzed food like Royal Canin Ultamino. Natural Balance Limited Ingredient has been one that has worked well for other EPI dogs. My boy did great on the rabbit formula until they discontinued it. Although my boy's Folate was high indicating SID, I suspected food sensitivities because he was having horrific skin infections, ear infections, pyoderma and fistulas in his paws. I did the NutriScan Food Sensitivity test which confirmed my boy has sensitivities.

The two WonderLabs products are the same thing - they just rebranded the bottle to help pet owners find it better on their site and because we had so many EPI owners purchasing their products. The company is in TN so you should get the pills within 2 or 3 days of ordering BUT BOY OH BOY Daisy's B12 is EXTREMELY low. No wonder she's not feeling good.

I would go ahead and get her in for a shot ASAP and then start the WonderLab pills as soon as they arrive. Hold off on giving any other supplements right now as she's just not stable enough.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

User avatar
faye grimm
Member
Posts: 30
Location: Rogue Valley Oregon
Country: United States
State: Oregon
Pet name: Daisy
My name: faye

Re: New member: Daisy's story

Post by faye grimm » 14 Jan 2020, 19:22

Hi .. well I wrote back earlier but had to get off line (I share the property owners internet) and lost everything I wrote. UGH!

Anyhow I did hear from the doctor and I did order the Pet factor and all seems to be moving along.
It was a breeze ordering from Wonderlabs and a delightful surprise that shipping was only 99 cents.
Thank you for the discount code. Is that only for first time orders?

I suppose I should keep Daisy only on the turkey for now, maybe the beef upset her although I have given it to her recently with no vomiting I was aware of but I will try to follow everyone's advice and keep it truly simple to see how she does.
Being rural it is hard to even keep track of her poop unless I am with her because she has so many places to go.
But it has remained yellow and soft though no more pudding like puddles. It has been formed since we started the enzymes.

I am going to hold off on the B12 shot as it would cost $29 plus the $49 office visit.
The vet did suggest we test her again after a month on the B12 supplement.

I will try to compile of list of questions for her and if any of you have suggestions I will include them.
Daisy and I live in rural southern Oregon. In June of 2015 I saw someone selling 5 week old puppies from a van and I swear I was "only looking" when Daisy's head popped up from the back of the box and she jumped across her liter mates straight to me, got up on her hind legs and started licking my face.
She had just chosen me. The guy wanted $100 a pup. I told him I only had $50. He said no way.
I replied, "This is my dog now. Take it or leave it. But she is coming home with me."
So I gave the man his $50 and we have been joined at the hip every since ...

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