Maybe not EPI?
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- Member
- Posts: 1382
- Country: United States
- State: Florida
- Pet name: Tucker
- My name: Pam H.
Re: Maybe not EPI?
Hi Nate, and apologies for hijacking your post. I guess maybe we both need to look into the epi test for our pups. If I find a way to get one more reasonably priced, I'll let you know, too. Take care---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.
Re: Maybe not EPI?
Maybe ask your vet how much it would be to have IDEXX run just the Tli.
Jill
Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014
Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014
Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
-
- Member
- Posts: 1382
- Country: United States
- State: Florida
- Pet name: Tucker
- My name: Pam H.
Re: Maybe not EPI?
Thanks, Jill. I will do that. Interestingly, though, reading on the Epi4Dogs facebook page, a chart on B12 deficiency symptoms includes fearfulness. In spite of months of taking Wonderlabs Int/fac, Tucker is afraid of everything, these days. He wants so terribly to go for a walk, but halfway down the driveway he freezes, and starts to shake when I try to coax him on. This is so out of character, so I'm thinking maybe we do the whole thing asap. Thanks, as always for your guidance.---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.
- Jean
- Forum Director
- Posts: 1707
- Location: South Liverpool
- Country: United Kingdom - England
- Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
- My name: Jean
Re: Maybe not EPI?
I think its important to jump in on posts as they often give inspiration
As to fearfulness, if this is a new thing then b12 often helps, the staring could be pain in the belly is there any rumbling ?
As to the cost of cTLI cobalamin test, we paid £300 in 2010 which equated to $389 in todays prices, its pretty high as its specific , its probably more now
We can only recommend that people get the test done, as with anything, the wrong medicines, protocol is something we cannot support any longer than weeks
Let us k ow
Jeanx
As to fearfulness, if this is a new thing then b12 often helps, the staring could be pain in the belly is there any rumbling ?
As to the cost of cTLI cobalamin test, we paid £300 in 2010 which equated to $389 in todays prices, its pretty high as its specific , its probably more now
We can only recommend that people get the test done, as with anything, the wrong medicines, protocol is something we cannot support any longer than weeks
Let us k ow
Jeanx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
Re: Maybe not EPI?
Hi Pam, when Mickey got fearful plus some other symptoms his thyroid level had dropped. He was put on ThyroTabs and within a week he was happy again.
Has Tucker had his thyroid checked recently?
Jill
Has Tucker had his thyroid checked recently?
Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014
Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014
Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
Re: Maybe not EPI?
Hello all, thanks for the replies and good dialogue. Everyone has had great questions and replies.
We went today and had blood drawn for the test. It was $347.00 for the tLi, B12 and folate panel. Hopefully we find out something soon. Jax seemed very bloated yesterday and you could hear his stomach gurgling from across the room. When we took him for a walk it sounded like constant sloshing in his belly. We could tell he didn’t feel well. This comes after the 3 week trial of Pan tenex with Taste of the Wild - salmon, fish. We started with 1/2 tsp of enzymes and eventually up to 2 tsp and grinding up the kibble. His stool remained Huge and cow patty like.
Seems like nothing was working so we had to get some conclusive answers. He was 69.5 lbs at the vet today. The same from the beginning of September. He’s looking more thin as of late too. Hips feel more bony and today you could see his ribs. Really hope we can get this figured out soon. It’s supposed to be a 3 day turn around for the results.
We went today and had blood drawn for the test. It was $347.00 for the tLi, B12 and folate panel. Hopefully we find out something soon. Jax seemed very bloated yesterday and you could hear his stomach gurgling from across the room. When we took him for a walk it sounded like constant sloshing in his belly. We could tell he didn’t feel well. This comes after the 3 week trial of Pan tenex with Taste of the Wild - salmon, fish. We started with 1/2 tsp of enzymes and eventually up to 2 tsp and grinding up the kibble. His stool remained Huge and cow patty like.
Seems like nothing was working so we had to get some conclusive answers. He was 69.5 lbs at the vet today. The same from the beginning of September. He’s looking more thin as of late too. Hips feel more bony and today you could see his ribs. Really hope we can get this figured out soon. It’s supposed to be a 3 day turn around for the results.
Re: Maybe not EPI?
Hi Nate,
Glad to see you got the testing done. Hopefully when you get results it can point you in a direction.
Just to be clear, the Pantenex are 10x. So you started out at around 1/2 teaspoon per 1 cup food? How are you preparing it? The diet of grainfree kibble less than 4%, B12 supplement if needed and antibiotic are all needed if Epi.
Hope to hear test results next week.
Jill
Glad to see you got the testing done. Hopefully when you get results it can point you in a direction.
Just to be clear, the Pantenex are 10x. So you started out at around 1/2 teaspoon per 1 cup food? How are you preparing it? The diet of grainfree kibble less than 4%, B12 supplement if needed and antibiotic are all needed if Epi.
Hope to hear test results next week.
Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014
Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014
Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
- Madelon
- Staff
- Posts: 1317
- Location: Nashville, TN
- Country: United States
- State: Tennessee
- Pet name: Doc
Re: Maybe not EPI?
Hi Nate. Glad you had the test done. Just want to make sure your pup was fasted for at least 8 hours before they drew the blood? Also, please check with your vet and ask them to check with the lab but we typically recommend not drawing the blood on Thursday or Friday so it's not sitting over the weekend without being properly stored - so just check to be sure the lab was open on the weekend in order to receive the blood and test it.
I just compared the label of Pan Tenex enzymes to Diane's Pancreatin 6x as I'm not really familiar with Pan Tenex - I use EnzymeDiane Pancreatin 6x. The Pan Tenex enzyme strength is actually less than the Pancreatin 6x so I think that's where a big part of the problem is. I highly recommend using 1 level teaspoon per cup of kibble, however, you may have to use a bit more with the Pan Tenex as the enzyme strength is actually less. If you increase to 1 level teaspoon and are seeing improvements in the poop but still not where it should be then you might try 1 level teaspoon plus 1/8th teaspoon wait 3-5 days to see the results.
If your dog does indeed have EPI you will not see good results until you have the four cornerstones in place and the right balance of each, but don't worry we will be here to help you!!
For now, I would increase the enzymes AND if you haven't already, try giving some slippery elm bark powder https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/.
I just compared the label of Pan Tenex enzymes to Diane's Pancreatin 6x as I'm not really familiar with Pan Tenex - I use EnzymeDiane Pancreatin 6x. The Pan Tenex enzyme strength is actually less than the Pancreatin 6x so I think that's where a big part of the problem is. I highly recommend using 1 level teaspoon per cup of kibble, however, you may have to use a bit more with the Pan Tenex as the enzyme strength is actually less. If you increase to 1 level teaspoon and are seeing improvements in the poop but still not where it should be then you might try 1 level teaspoon plus 1/8th teaspoon wait 3-5 days to see the results.
If your dog does indeed have EPI you will not see good results until you have the four cornerstones in place and the right balance of each, but don't worry we will be here to help you!!
For now, I would increase the enzymes AND if you haven't already, try giving some slippery elm bark powder https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.
Re: Maybe not EPI?
Thank you Madelon!
Nate: my bad for the information on the Pan Tenex 10x amount to use. When I looked it up it said 10 times strength and I took it at its word instead of comparing it to enzymediane 6x!
Learn at least 1 thing every day. I just did LOL!
Jill
Nate: my bad for the information on the Pan Tenex 10x amount to use. When I looked it up it said 10 times strength and I took it at its word instead of comparing it to enzymediane 6x!
Learn at least 1 thing every day. I just did LOL!
Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014
Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014
Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
- Jean
- Forum Director
- Posts: 1707
- Location: South Liverpool
- Country: United Kingdom - England
- Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
- My name: Jean
Re: Maybe not EPI?
good luck Nate
i remember Kara being like this its just so scary, but it will hopefully resolve, I had to put a jumper on her at one time as she was so thin
Tylan helps considerably, but the food is the big one, Kara was intollerant of most proteins. lamb was the one we settled on for 8 years and suited her well, as you can appreciate, the enzymes over here are diferent, also te b12 supplementation is also very important
https://www.petmd.com/dog/wellness/evr_ ... py_for_epi
let us know what the results are
Jean
i remember Kara being like this its just so scary, but it will hopefully resolve, I had to put a jumper on her at one time as she was so thin
Tylan helps considerably, but the food is the big one, Kara was intollerant of most proteins. lamb was the one we settled on for 8 years and suited her well, as you can appreciate, the enzymes over here are diferent, also te b12 supplementation is also very important
https://www.petmd.com/dog/wellness/evr_ ... py_for_epi
let us know what the results are
Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
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