Our Shepherd has been diagnosed with EPI this year and we're coming into some complications.

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Post Reply
jdcarpenter91
Member
Posts: 4
Country: United States
State: Illinois
Pet name: Charlie
My name: Josh

Our Shepherd has been diagnosed with EPI this year and we're coming into some complications.

Post by jdcarpenter91 » 16 Jan 2020, 23:40

Our 3 year old shepherd, Charlie has since October been diagnosed with EPI and I did a ton of research and found enzymediane.com and she instantly started gaining weight and all things have been great.

Until recently, I looked up good dog food for EPI dogs and I was given Instinct Original. We got her the food and we've noticed she's got heavy gurgles in her stomach and will dry heave every once in a while. Her stools have been very solid and she is maintain weight. I've read that it could be she needs an Anti Acid with her food.

The real issue is that she seems to have become incontinent. She will just be laying in bed or on the couch and she'll get up and there is a big puddle under her and on her thigh shes laying on. She has never had this issue before being put on the enzymes and I can't find any readings any where about incontinence. I'm calling the vet tomorrow to test to see if she may have SIBO and have them test her blood for low B12 levels.

She's happy and very active and I just want the best for her. please If anyone has any advise or helpful knowledge, I will be very grateful!

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 651
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Our Shepherd has been diagnosed with EPI this year and we're coming into some complications.

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 17 Jan 2020, 06:04

Hey Josh. I'm an early bird, it's teacher work day, and I get to go in a little later, so it looks like you got me first! My story is a little different, but I just wanted to tell you that you will be hearing from some very experienced people who can help with many of your pup's issues. One thing, though, most dogs who have epi do present with SIBO/SID, whatever it's called these days. Because of this, my Tucker has been on Tylan, an antibiotic, long term, and according to my vet it's ok if he is always on it. I just learned HERE last night, that it has unique properties that make this long term use OK. So, here is what I know, and what I use-----EnzymeDiane 6X, WonderLab Intrinsic Factor B12, Tylan, and Slippery Elm. Dosage of enzymes depends on the amount of food, others depend on weight of dog. ALL of this learned from the forum, here, which I have no idea how I found in the first place, but I sure am glad I did. I hope your vet will take the time to peruse the site. My vet praised my proactivism, but not all do, for sure. I have no idea about the incontinence, but you will soon be hearing from others, so hang in there. Keep us posted on what your vet says, OK? ---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule 2X day, slippery elm 1/4 teaspoon/day, and Tylan 1/4 teaspoon twice/day (therapeutic for returning SID). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, his weight is steady, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

User avatar
Jean
Staff
Posts: 1237
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Our Shepherd has been diagnosed with EPI this year and we're coming into some complications.

Post by Jean » 17 Jan 2020, 09:28

good afternoon from the UK Josh

And welcome to the family

EPI when stable is very manageable

so is it the Natural Instinct variety, if so which recipe

our dogs find it very difficult to digest grains, including rice, a lot of them cannot tolerate chicken and that includd poultry fat in dog food

the incontinence is something you will need to discuss with the vet but my money is on tummy gurgles

i remember my Kara had an issue with leaks, and it always coincided with her having a SIBO attack (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth) also known As SID (small intestinal dysbiosis)

this means there are nasty bugs in the gut which we treat with Tylan twice daily depending on the weight of the dog

Karas problem was, that the rumbling and the discomfort of it, made her leak urine

please remember that the b12 test is 8-12 hours food fasted

anyway keep a daily diary, record everything

I will find out from Diane if she has any other dogs with incontinence on her books


Jeanx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

User avatar
jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 1241
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Our Shepherd has been diagnosed with EPI this year and we're coming into some complications.

Post by jilbert57 » 17 Jan 2020, 09:46

Hi Josh,
Welcome to you and Charlie.
When an animal first starts using enzymes a lot more water may be consumed. Some dogs will pee in their bed or elsewhere if they can't be let out asap.
IF it doesn't subside soon I would have her checked first for a bladder infection.
Is she spayed? My spayed aussie Kiya presented with the same symptoms as Charlie. They ruled out an infection but diagnosed her with spay incontinence. She is on a low dose of Proin daily which strengthens the sphincter muscles. It works great. There are natural products your vet can point you to also.
If more water than usual is being consumed you might rule out diabetes.
As for the Instinct kibble, the only thing that might be interfering are the peas. If you can't straighten things out you might try a kibble without peas, lentils/legumes, among the first 4 ingredients. Sounds like poops are good.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have one pup. TJ is a 5 year old Jack Russell.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

D Sloan
Member
Posts: 11
Country: United States
State: Ohio

Re: Our Shepherd has been diagnosed with EPI this year and we're coming into some complications.

Post by D Sloan » 17 Jan 2020, 11:44

What food were you feeding before the tummy issues? I usually suggest going back to what was working. That being said the incontinence may not be epi related so I would check with the vet as well. I did notice that when Sarge had some accidents (and I was home ill at the time) I did start to notice some tummy rumbling so I did a round of Tylan his stools were not awful (and I was too sick to keep going out) but the tummy rumbling was I did 30 days of Tylan and we never had an issue again with the stand up from a nap and pee (he only did this a few times).
It was only the 3rd time in many years that he was on antibiotics so I was not worried about overuse of antibiotics if I was treated SID that was not there.

I am not sure if this will help you as well. I would check for a UTI to start which you may be able to do by dropping off a urine sample without an appointment.

User avatar
Jean
Staff
Posts: 1237
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Our Shepherd has been diagnosed with EPI this year and we're coming into some complications.

Post by Jean » 18 Jan 2020, 07:19

thanks for the input Di
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

User avatar
Madelon
President
Posts: 1275
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Our Shepherd has been diagnosed with EPI this year and we're coming into some complications.

Post by Madelon » 18 Jan 2020, 10:52

Hi and welcome to our EPI family. Sorry I'm late in responding.

Can you tell us what the B12 and Folate levels where when your dog was tested/diagnosed with EPI?

If you haven't been supplementing with B12 since diagnosis it's likely SID (small intestinal dysbiosis - formerly called SIBO). Then the question becomes is the food really okay for your dog but the SID just happened to flare up at the same time as the food switch because the B12 is low OR is the food not the right food. EPI dogs need their B12 on the high side of normal 600+ and supplementing is for life. The trick is to find out the exact right dosage for your dog to keep the B12 level where it needs to be. You can either do shots or use WonderLab Pet Factor B12 pills (most of us use the pills because they are inexpensive, no prescription needed and easy to administer).

I agree with Diane go back to what was working. If your pup had perfect poops on the previous food then that's what I would stick with. Did you make the switch to the new food gradually?

If you have tummy gurgling and gas but good poops then I would wait it out and see what happens - if the poops go south you could try some Slippery Elm Bark Powder https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/

As for the peeing, I would definitely make a trip to the vet as it could be a UTI or something else. EPI dogs do tend to drink a bit more water and thus pee more when first diagnosed and adjusting to the enzymes but it usually subsides. However, since you've been on enzymes since October and this is just now happening, I would consult your vet for sure.

Please keep us posted.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 67 guests