Bloat and Preventative Gastropexy

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Ehellriegel
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Posts: 41
Country: United States
State: Georgia
Pet name: Fi
My name: Eleanor

Bloat and Preventative Gastropexy

Post by Ehellriegel » 03 Feb 2020, 14:34

Good afternoon!

As a dog-mom with a recently-diagnosed EPI pup, bloat is certainly on my mind. Having a high-risk breed (German Shepherd) who now has an even higher risk because of her EPI has me wondering if preventative care may be the best option. Fi is not spayed yet, so after some research, I have discovered that preventative gastropexy (stapling the stomach wall to the abdominal wall) is a relatively common procedure that can be done at the same time as a spay since they can be done from the same incision. While this won't prevent the danger of bloat from the harmful building of gasses that need to be immediately released by a vet, it will prevent the especially deadly twisting of the stomach that creates a much more life-threatening situation.

This preventative choice certainly does not replace the need to be careful and prevent exercise for an hour before/after eating, gulping water, eating too quickly, etc. since the inflation phase of bloat can still occur. It would simply remove the highly deadly torsion of the stomach if bloat were to occur, and the added cost of an emergency surgery.

My question is: Has anyone here had a preventative gastropexy performed? Through my research, there seem to be very few if any ill side effects (especially if performed with a routine surgery such as a spay), since the recovery time will be the same for one surgery or both. Very few cases have reported slight intestinal upset following the surgery that resolves.

If anyone has any tips for how they prevent bloat, please feel free to share!

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jilbert57
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Re: Bloat and Preventative Gastropexy

Post by jilbert57 » 03 Feb 2020, 15:03

That sounds interesting. I have no dealings with bloat but some on here have and hope they will come on.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Patsy
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Re: Bloat and Preventative Gastropexy

Post by Patsy » 03 Feb 2020, 16:40

Has your dog actually had bloat yet, or are you just concerned about it as a general risk factor for your breed of dog? I am not aware of epi being involved as a cause, and I’ve never heard of a dog having preventive major surgery as a precaution.
Springer spaniel Marti had Epi, PLE , MMM just to confuse me. She lived till 12yrs, chubby and happy despite eight years of epi.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.

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Madelon
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Re: Bloat and Preventative Gastropexy

Post by Madelon » 03 Feb 2020, 21:24

Hi and welcome to our EPI family. I wish I had known about the surgery when my boy was neutered after being diagnosed with EPI because I definitely would have done it. I have a GSD too and am ALWAYS concerned about bloat. One thing you can do is get a slow feed bowl so she doesn't gulp the food and obviously limit activity before and after eating.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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Ehellriegel
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Pet name: Fi
My name: Eleanor

Re: Bloat and Preventative Gastropexy

Post by Ehellriegel » 04 Feb 2020, 10:39

Thanks for your replies!

Patsy,
Fi has not had bloat before, I am just worried since she is a GSD, so a higher-risk breed. And with the EPI, I have read in several articles that because of the possible recurrence of SID/SIBO, EPI dogs can have a greater chance of bloat since SID commonly causes a higher amount of gases in their system (common symptoms are burping/flatulence). I understand it is a major surgery, but coupled with her spay, it would not be an additional time she would need to go under anesthesia and recovery, etc. I am just considering it as an option, so I wanted to get some opinions!

Madelon,
That's what I was thinking, since she will already be on the table to be spayed! Fi has never been much of a rapid eater, usually picking at her food and wandering back after about 10 minutes to finish it up. But with the EPI, she has been ravenous and eating much more quickly since she's still gaining weight back, so that is concerning. I am debating just putting another bowl upside down in her food bowl so she has to work around something to eat and thus slow her down, since she may return to her picky-eater status once she is back to normal! We definitely limit activity for an hour before and after eating, she is learning to be more calm.

Have you seen much on water before/after eating? Should I take her water bowl up for an hour surrounding meal times, or is it okay to do 30 minutes on either end? It is just difficult now with the three meals a day so it seems like she is always restricted from something because she just ate or she is about to eat again soon. I can't wait to get back to two meals a day because it is much easier to manage!

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Jean
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Re: Bloat and Preventative Gastropexy

Post by Jean » 05 Feb 2020, 07:20

My university specialist spoke at one point about bloat and surgery, but thats about it, the one thing he advocated was never to feed from an elevated bowl and never exercise after food , this seems to be the advice everywhere now

i have had three Shepherds, 2 with DM Degereative Myleopothy, and 1 with cancer, of the two wirh DM my Kara lived with EPI for 9 years, DM is the pits

https://epi4dogs.com/bloat/

i can understand your fears, and there is always an extra fear when anything gastro is in play

to be honest i never considered surgery but this talks a bit about it, Gastroplexy

http://siriusdog.com/torsion-dog-megaesophagus2/

but the vets can maybe do the procedure at the same time as a spay

but please dont get too hung up about it, and talk to your vet, if you are worried about fast food eating, try feeding from your hand, its what I did for some time, and feed small meals, all enzymed

j
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Ehellriegel
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Posts: 41
Country: United States
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Pet name: Fi
My name: Eleanor

Re: Bloat and Preventative Gastropexy

Post by Ehellriegel » 05 Feb 2020, 10:45

Hi Jean,
Thank you for the article, it was a very interesting read! I guess it's just a matter of doing as many preventative things as you can and making sure no relatives have had bloat since it seems to have a genetic element to it. Fi definitely doesn't eat from a raised food bowl, and we are putting her back on her slow feeder bowl that we originally had when she was a puppy. She never needed it since she was a picky eater so we packed it away, but now she eats everything we put in front of her!

Right now, the exercise after eating it the hardest thing to control. Since we are still trying to get her to put weight back on, three meals a day is really throwing off our usual schedule. I get home at about 4:45, so after taking her out to potty and letting her food incubate for 20 minutes, it's about 5:20pm by the time she's eating meal #2 of the day (first meal is at 6:15am, not worried about that one because she goes in her crate for the day 30-45 minutes later, so she's not active at all in the morning). So, at a minimum, the earliest we can take her out to throw the tennis ball is 6:25pm. I used to take her out to play as soon as I got home, but I guess it's just a matter of having her get her weight back up before we can get back to our normal schedule with two meals a day. The antibiotics (which we just finished) made it even harder because those had to be given at specific times 12 hours apart!!

I'll just be thankful when she's back up to her optimal weight and stabilized so she can get all the play she wants before dinner and we don't have to risk taking her out after eating at all. She absolutely lives for her tennis ball (see attached picture), no toy even comes close. Luckily, it looks like she's putting on weight pretty quickly because she is looking so much better than she did a week ago!! And we're down to two poos a day, much better than the 6-8 it was before diagnosis.
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Madelon
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Re: Bloat and Preventative Gastropexy

Post by Madelon » 05 Feb 2020, 22:27

I personally don't believe in limiting water ever - especially after an enzymed meal because it helps wash their mouth out to prevent mouth sores. There is a slow water bowl on Amazon that I have - can't remember the name but i'm sure if you search amazon for slow dog water bowl it will come up - the base is blue and it has a plastic thing in the middle that they have to push down to get water to come up through - actually I think it may come up as less mess water bowl - downside is you will be filling it A LOT and it's plastic so you have to stay on top of washing it. I do try to limit activity before and after feeding but sometimes he runs to chase a bird or bark at a dog across the street. There are some GSD that get bloat despite taking all preventative measures so it's never a sure thing. Just be aware of the warning signs and get to an emergency vet ASAP if you suspect bloat.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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Jean
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Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Bloat and Preventative Gastropexy

Post by Jean » 06 Feb 2020, 06:16

s far as mine were concerned I always lead walked them after meals, with a bit of behaviour training thrown in

the major walk and exercise was during the day but if you cant then you cant, when we both worked the main walk and play time was early morning, the rest was lead walked

as to water, i wouldnt restrict water , but , maybe just put some down , and take it away for a very short time if she is drinking too fast, or put a tennis / rubber ball in the water so that it means she has to drink slower

none of mine were crated, one would have destroyed the crate !

good luck
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Ehellriegel
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Posts: 41
Country: United States
State: Georgia
Pet name: Fi
My name: Eleanor

Re: Bloat and Preventative Gastropexy

Post by Ehellriegel » 06 Feb 2020, 08:14

Thanks so much for your responses!

We haven't started restricting water yet, especially since she isn't a gulper when she drinks. But I'll probably try the trick with putting something in the water bowl to discourage heavy drinking just in case! I don't think a slow drinker bowl will work for Fi because she has always been thrown for a loop with the paw-press fountains at the dog park and things of the sort, I think she would just chose not to drink rather than deal with it.

Jean, she's in a "run" more than a crate, we just gate off a hallway that she gets her bed in for the day. We call it her "crate" because she already knows the word since we started out with a wire one that she learned how to escape from (even zip-tied) at about 7 months old.

We definitely know the warning signs of bloat and we have a doggy-cam so I can keep an eye on her throughout the day since we leave so soon after she's eaten.

I think we may already be at the point where we can transition back to two meals a day because she has put the weight back on very quickly. She already looks like she did before any of this hit, so I want to avoid having her join the Chunky Monkey club while she's still growing! I think she was able to gain weight quicker because she's still a puppy. Is this a good idea?

One other question I had is about her walks. In the morning, I assumed she's lagging because she wants the food that I left to incubate on the counter, but she's started lagging when we take her out to go potty in the afternoons and before bed as well. So much so that last night, she didn't even want to go pee before bed and she had an accident this morning even though we took the same amount of time getting ready to take her for her morning walk. Any thoughts on this? Could it be lack of B12? She doesn't seem to be really lethargic or lacking in any other way.

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