Epi4Dogs

thanks for your input Eleanor, its all about learning and sharing

its really shoutingly obvious that fibre seems to adversely affect them , they just cannot cope, funnily enough as Kara became older we had less and less issues with foods, everything else hit the ground, but not food

please feel free to share ANYTHING on our pages with your vets, the research is acknowleged everywhere, and our main researcher Olesia has the ear of many top people

Something seems odd to me. Have you had a fasting Tli test for epi . They should give you a score. I’m just asking about the poo colour. All the boxers I’ve known have had gut problems. The original yellow diarrhoea could be infection. But you’ve mentioned black, which my dog never achieved in eight years. Often , black is connected to bleeding, or in my non epi cocker, a kidney issue.
I think the immediate action needed is to get on antibiotics, whatever the cause.

Thank you Patsy for mentioning the black poop - I too was concerned when I read that. If you could post the TLI, B12 and Folate score from original diagnosis that would greatly help us in offering suggestions. When they ran the TLI test they should have also tested B12 and Folate. What B12 are you giving and how much? If your vet will not give you a prescription for Tylan, you could try Slippery Elm Bark Powder https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/

Thank you everyone,
Hes stools are slowly returning to normal. I have added a little more water to his food and enzymes. He is on B12 we are just having to move him off the injections (due to some trauma from the past for my 8 yr old) Shazam has some mouth sores and i am rinsing his mouth after meals and that seems to be helping as well as wiping his face after he eats too. Again i do believe that he was probably born with EPI and has never had treatment for it. He is only 2 and someone put lots of training into him because he is amazing! A one in a million find at the pound. I thought the exact thing when the vet told pumpkin, i even said isnt that for constipation? I have not given him any. I did ask about bananas. its what you use for babies with diarrhea, she said i could try some mashed banana. I think it may have been caused by the increase in enzymes that she suggested i use, and i know that its all about his tummy and body telling me what he needs. His TLI was <1 and she wants to wait to run anymore tests at this time, so i have no clue what is B12 levels are at or anything else for that matter. We have about 6 more weeks before we go back for another visit. I will be asking for a CBC at that visit. He has been on the enzymes for 9 days now and the change is amazing, i see the improvement everyday. I was very frustrated for him with the black tar looking poop. Im not sure what caused it other than maybe than i was also using a canned dog food mixed in with his food and the enzymes. I am also going to be changing his dry dog food, Ill be making the switch to Taste of the Wild. My douge de bordeaux lived her entire life on it and she had grain problems too but did wonderful on it once i got her going on it. You are all wonderful for all the help and i will be keeping a very close eye on his poops and the changes to his foods. Also thank you for the slippery elm info! Future arsenal for any problems.

Well done for coping so calmly, most of us have been in tears half the time..
Your vet is very frustrating, it would be better to get the four cornerstones that Jill and Jean have described fully, all in place together. Without a test the B12 will pick up with your regime, but without an antibiotic, you are fighting an inflamed, possibly bleeding gut, which is gassy and uncomfortable. My epi dog did the worlds worst smelly farts when she had sibo.
You should get the the full blood panel done asp, to be sure that the liver and kidney levels are right. It’s hard when you don’t have his history. Most dogs don’t complain. , my latest rescue was young and lively, but needed nearly all his teeth out and had pneumonia.
Keep a journal of what food and medicines go in, and what poo results happen..
If I was you, I would see the vet in a weeks time, rather than six.
Lastly, what was his weight when you started, and is it improving? The enzymes make the food taste very different, and many of us disguise it with fish or cream cheese, and spoon feed!

Well, we now have mouth sores....I dont just mean a little sore i mean this dog was bleeding from his mouth. I rinsed his mouth with some warm water and it stopped almost immediately. The only thing i can think to do to help him recover even a little is to stop the enzymes for a couple of days and/or to reintroduce them in much smaller amounts. I am willing to try anything for this poor guy, i feel like im failing him at every turn at this moment. Poor baby had bad bubble gut and i gave him a little pepto to just help calm his tummy, he ate 1 of the tabs and is resting now, but i dont know if this is okay for his tummy with the enzymes. I read a little about green tripe, anyone here have any experience with it? Hes showing signs of allergy problems with the new enzymes. (licking his feet itching his ears and chewing his paws) Im happy with his weight change and energy changes too, but im beginning to wonder if im torturing him by trying to fix his problems. I feel like im doing more harm than good. Or is there something more wrong with him that needs more vet care than i can even fathom? I read an article that said reducing the enzymes can help with the mouth/gum bleed, but what to do for the allergy? His food HAS to be changed, its got boar in it and he was itching before we got the diagnosis and it seemed to stop for a bit. But here we go again. Ill be picking up Tatse of the WIld for him tomorrow after work. (high prairie canine) it seem like the best alternative here. But still need the enzymes. Any suggestions?

The B12 injections for dogs are done by members at home as a quick prick into a ‘tent’ of skin on the back, not into muscle. It shouldn’t be traumatic. The worst bit is having to go to the clinic.
Anyway, tablets should work.
Mouth sores.....dogs with floppy cheeks and jowls, including my springer spaniel, do seem to retain a lot of saliva, which with enzymes is caustic. Well tried methods include squirting water in with a turkey baster, wiping with a flannel. I failed at these methods. I put Vaseline on her nose to protect it. But as she would rather starve than eat enzymes, I used enzyme capsules or coated tablets. I used them forever.
I am in the UK, where we can buy at least three types for dogs. In other countries you can buy Creon. Same stuff, more expensive. I’m sure more folks will advise you on that.
The paw licking could be your allergy, but is almost certainly also because he has a horrible taste in his mouth from enzymes, and he is trying to get rid of it.
Please get the vet to prescribe antibiotics, bubble gut is far too nice a description for sibo/Sid, which can cause pain and ulceration.
Don’t despair, so long as the poop is improving the dog is getting nourishment at last. The other side effects aren’t pleasant, but they won’t kill him.
The advice to everyone is to be patient, ( except with vets).

Oh no! I have read a couple of ideas on this forum, for addressing mouth sores. One is to hold out a few pieces of kibble & put them into a bowl of water, for him to have at the end of a meal. Another one is to put some ice cubes into a bowl of water, following his meal. I wonder if a little squirt bottle with water for his gums would help. So everything else is going well?---Pam

Pam,
Yes, for the moment. We seem to have found a little relief for him with a few ideas i stole from raising my kids. So for we finally have brown formed poop again. (never thought id be happy about poop) More to come as i find what works.

What is helping the mouth sores? When you mentioned your kids, you reminded me of something I learned when my daughter had mono. The sore throat is excrutiating, and somebody told me about magic mouthwash---it's 1/2 liquid benadryl + 1/2 mylanta, mixed & gargled. It truly is magical. If the ingredients are safe for dogs, I wonder if that would provide some relief.