New member with SID/SIBO puppy & questions!

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: New member with SID/SIBO puppy & questions!

Post by Madelon » 13 May 2020, 22:05

Hi again! Glad to hear the Tylan seems to be helping. Just a personal story for you to keep in the back of your head - when my boys was first tested at 3months old he was negative for EPI - his TLI was 16 but he was diagnosed with SID (Folate was over 24 and symptoms matched). He was treated with two rounds of antibiotics and then did fine until he slowly started losing weight at 10mos old then had diarrhea - he was retested at 13mos old after losing a total of 20lbs and this time the TLI was less than .4 and he B12 went from over 800 to around 400.

So if he was tested in December, if you start to see symptoms again - weight loss or diarrhea - I would retest again, especially since he was not fasted prior to testing. Has your dog tried to eat his own poop? Do you know for sure if he's gained weight by weighing him on a scale?

It might be that the food is not agreeing with your pup as well. In an effort to save money you could order the Schebo poop test from EnzymeDiane - it is accurate at ruling out EPI but if it indicates EPI you'll need to follow up with a fasted blood test.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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Montgomery
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Country: Canada
Pet name: Montgomery (I'm a CAT!)
My name: V

Re: New member with SID/SIBO puppy & questions!

Post by Montgomery » 14 May 2020, 11:18

Change one thing at a time and then give it some time. Best advice my veterinarian has ever given me and its served Montgomery and the rest of his colony quite well.
Montgomery was born 20 March 2012. He eats Royal Canin Spayed/Neutered Kitten dry food and Royal Canin Ultra Light wet food. He takes two size zero capsules of Enzyme Diane's Enzymes with each meal, and gets one number four capsule of Tylosin three times a day. He also gets half a millilitre of Ovol twice a day. Montgomery is a fierce, unflappable little guy. Strong, independent and awesome.

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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Pet name: Izzy

Re: New member with SID/SIBO puppy & questions!

Post by Olesia711 » 14 May 2020, 12:57

Hi again, and so sorry that your family had a death in the family recently. Our condolences.
Regarding Smokey's test results done in Dec 2019.... i 2nd Madelon's suggestion. Retest!

Over the years we have seen many dogs be not clinically EPI, not even close, but had all the symptoms, and then over the course of months/or a year or two.... they eventually became positive with EPI.

However, reading thru all your previous posts and your current post... one last thing that you might want to try before you run another TLI blood test.... is to ask your vet if you can "try" a true HYDROLYZED food. Although Purina EN is an excellent gastro food, it is not hydrolyzed.... I highly suggest asking your vet if you can try Royal Canine "Ultamino" a hydrolyzed prescription food.
https://www.royalcanin.com/us/dogs/prod ... y-dog-food

I am specifically recommending this brand because the way this particular product is formulated, it is the least offensive hydrolyzed compared to all the other 5 true hydrolyzed brands. Also..... if your vet agrees, ask if he can order you the smallest bag possible, just to try for about 5 days.... so as not to waste a lot of money if it is not going to work. If it does work, then most likely Smokey has a food sensitivity of some sort and that is why you are seeing all these EPI symptoms and yet it is not full blown (or even not at all) EPI. Although sometimes, many of these dogs have EPI + a food sensitivity (or IBD) simultaneously..... and unfortunately it is often difficult to properly confirm without doing an invasive scope and even then it doesn't always show the full scope of things........

Hope this helps and please keep us posted.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

mdp_LSB
Member
Posts: 10
Country: United States
State: Pennsylvania
Pet name: Smokey
My name: Mary

Re: New member with SID/SIBO puppy & questions!

Post by mdp_LSB » 14 May 2020, 18:36

Madelon, Olesia, and Montgomery,
Thanks ever so much!! I truly appreciate the experience & the helpful suggestions. Smokey is not eating poop at the moment, but I am picking it up shortly after elimination so there's not really an opportunity. He did show some interest the other day, so who knows. As far as weight gain, I am just not certain where we are right now. We only have a home bathroom scale and not sure how closely it relates to the vet scale. Also not certain where he is in his development & what's considered a normal weight. Anyway, it will be one of the top questions for the visit, along with an assessment of his muscle tone. He certainly doesn't lack for energy. Appreciate the suggestions on things to try, and the ideas for some cost savings. Really want to do right by Smokey ... he's a lovely boy with a great personality and we are super lucky to have him. The previous responses (and my gut) has been cautioning me to keep a close eye on things. I hope it's just extra worry, but we shall see. Will update when I have more concrete info.

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
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Re: New member with SID/SIBO puppy & questions!

Post by Olesia711 » 14 May 2020, 21:01

Hi Mary,

What we like to suggest to folks is to start keeping a log/journal.... and it doesn't matter if your dog does or doesn't have EPI.... keeping a log/journal is a great way to try things one at a time and keep a running record of any and all reactions you observe.

If you go to this page, https://epi4dogs.com/epi-log/
you can download a template of the EPI log and once you see the categories, it will help you understand what to keep track of when you try different foods, supplements, feeding times, etc.... and to track elimination results, and/or other body responses....
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

mdp_LSB
Member
Posts: 10
Country: United States
State: Pennsylvania
Pet name: Smokey
My name: Mary

Re: New member with SID/SIBO puppy & questions!

Post by mdp_LSB » 16 May 2020, 10:37

I am so very grateful for you all. Have downloaded the template to keep track of everything. Will discuss hydrolyzed food with vet on Tuesday and planning to order the Schebo test as first step to determining if it's EPI. Thank you!

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Olesia711
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Posts: 1223
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: New member with SID/SIBO puppy & questions!

Post by Olesia711 » 16 May 2020, 14:53

YOu are very welcome. Please keep us posted on what your vet says AND the results of the Schebo test. Just remember... the Schebo test is a "rule-out" test. It definitely rules out EPI.... but if it indicates EPI.... then you have to test for EPI cuz it cannot differentiate between EPI and very similar EPI-like conditions....
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Barb
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Posts: 455
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: New member with SID/SIBO puppy & questions!

Post by Barb » 16 May 2020, 18:50

Hello, Mary and welcome to our EPI family. You have received excellent advice and sorting it out just takes time and patience. It feels overwhelming but once you start balancing everything, it will get more manageable.

We could not use SE at all with our Kolby. Everything affected him. But many people have wonderful results and you are getting their experiences.

Also, Kolby was a lifer with tylan, too. Just to let you know that happens.

The journal /log was a life-saver for us. I used it many, many times over the years and it saved our sanity. It also gave us invaluable information whenever we had to sort things out.

Hang in there. You are doing a great job. We will look forward to new info as you get it.

Barb

mdp_LSB
Member
Posts: 10
Country: United States
State: Pennsylvania
Pet name: Smokey
My name: Mary

Re: New member with SID/SIBO puppy & questions!

Post by mdp_LSB » 31 May 2020, 23:06

Hi all, just a quick update. The Schebo test didn't show any evidence of EPI. I may do a repeat in a month or two just to be sure. There was a little bit of stool on the collection stick outside the four indents and I wasn't sure if that mattered. The vet wasn't overly concerned about Smokey's weight although she agreed he is on the thin side. She did write a script for the RC Ultamino and I'm in the process of slowly transitioning so I can do the five day trial. Poops are ok but the latter segment is now consistently softer/lighter. We are going back to the vet later this week to have routine bloodwork panel and urinalysis to see if all consistent with prior results. Also contemplating an appointment with an internist. I still believe things aren't quite right, and trying to work through a step at a time. Other than that, we are pretty much status quo and enjoying the day with our boy as it unfolds. Will update again when we have more news.

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
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Re: New member with SID/SIBO puppy & questions!

Post by jilbert57 » 31 May 2020, 23:13

Thank you for the update. Let us know how the Ultamino works.

Jill
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 13, TJ is a 4 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

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