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Sick after giving powdered pancreas

Posted: 20 Mar 2020, 15:26
by Sudallas
I need help. I gave Phoenix his first dose of Bio Case Plus several days ago. He eats meat so I followed the instructions and mixed it in his meat and let it sit for 30 minutes.

A couple of hours later, Phoenix started making these sounds like he was going to throw up but he was laying down. His stomach would heave and he would make this grunting sound. He does not throw up. The Bio Case did control the frequent pooping so my vet said to continue using it.

But this spasm in his gut and grunting has continued. It happens more after he eats. The odd thing is his poop has returned to a dark color and he has only pooped once since I stopped using the powder yesterday.

His vet thinks the spasms are caused by acid from the powder irritating his esophagus and stomach. He gave me a prescription for pain to help his stomach. The vet has not witnessed these spasms. Has anyone else had a pet do this after taking a powder supplement?

Re: Sick after giving powdered pancreas

Posted: 20 Mar 2020, 19:52
by Olesia711
So sorry your dog is having this kind of reaction:

I just looked up the instructions and ingredients (see below). This is the right kind of enzymes BUT the Lipase dose is kind of low and i suspect what is giving Phioenix the immediate after meal cramps could be the Lactobacillis ( in the probiotic ). This might be something Phoenix has to simply get acclimated to over time. Although some dogs just cannot take a probiotic. Normally i would say this is SID (small intestinal dysbiosis) and to treat, and although it still probably is the underlying problem, but the fact that this is happening every single time you give the enzymes (which are needed) something in the enzymes are triggering this kind of reaction.

Please write me privately ( with your home mailing address.... and i will send you some enzymes WITHOUT the probiotic or B12 (which should not be included in enzymes but given rather separately on an individual dog's needs basis!) . This way you can give Phoenix the proper enzymes without the additives to see if the additives was the problem... because bottom line is that your dog needs enzymes... so we will have to figure this out.

Also the instructions should say start with 1 level tsp per 1 cup of food , etc.
SOOOOOOOo... my question to you is how much food (how many cups) are you giving per meal with this scoop of enzymes (please measure how much this scoop is- -i suspect it is 1 tsp, but measure to make sure) and please let me know what the name of the food is that you are giving.

I am also guessing that the vet prescribed ether Pepcid AC or Omeprazole to take care of the acid in the stomach, which is perfectly fine.

Guaranteed Analysis per scoop (2.8 g) of Bio Case Plus:
Vitamin B12 (min).............................................. 1000 mcg
*Lipase (dried porcine pancreas) (min)...................... 57,000 USPa
*Protease (dried porcine pancreas) (min)................. 407,000 USPb
*alpha-Amylase (dried porcine pancreas) (min)........ 475,000 USPc
*Trypsin (dried porcine pancreas) (min)...................... 453,000 USPd
*Lactobacillus acidophilus (min)........................ 1 Billion CFU

Re: Sick after giving powdered pancreas

Posted: 20 Mar 2020, 19:54
by Olesia711
Oh... i also meant to say, that your dog very well may need prebiotics + probiotics to battle SID, or if this doesn't help or help enough, then you dog may need a course of antibiotics (Tylan).... BUT..... sometimes we just have to strip things down to the simplest form and then add things back one at a time to see what the trigger was that cause a problem.

Re: Sick after giving powdered pancreas

Posted: 20 Mar 2020, 23:00
by Buttermom1
Hello and welcome. May I ask what type of dog you have and how much you are feeding at a time? May I also ask how you are preparing the enzymes and food. Are you allowing the enzymes and food to “incubate”? Are you moistening the food to mix the enzymes into? You say you are feeding meat, does that mean raw? Do you have the tli score? I apologize for the questions, but it will help us help you......

Re: Sick after giving powdered pancreas

Posted: 21 Mar 2020, 08:00
by Kohlesmomma
Hey, I wanted chime in here to see if I can help you as well, because I originally had my dog on Bio-case. When I switched him to the Bio-case Plus, I saw much more improvement than with the regular Biocase. I'm not really sure why they offer 2 different ones since most all dogs require the b12 supplement which plain Bio case does NOT have. My dog did the heaving you described as well. Your dog is NOT the only one. Don't panic. I ended up switching to Enzyme Diane mostly because of cost. You get a more pure product for less money and I supplement the b12 with oral wonderlabs for pets. Oleasia knows what she is talking about and has alot of experience with this condition. She helped me greatly in the beginning of this epi madness. I just wanted to let you know you will get thru this . It wasn't really until I had proper food, enzyme, antibiotics, and b12 in place, and occasional famatodine (for acid reflux)dose that Kohle is now stable. It looked very bleak for my dog in the beginning, and now he is a chunker! And healthy.
Hang in there and learn from Oleasia, she is very kind and knowledgeable.
Kellie and Kohle

Re: Sick after giving powdered pancreas

Posted: 22 Mar 2020, 20:16
by Sudallas
Thank you, Kellie
I am trying to stay calm through this but it is very hard. I am 67 and Phoenix is my only companion. I love him and need him.
The vet prescribed gabapentin to help ease his stomach ache. But now, this seems to be causing a problem. Phoenix was eating quite well until he started the gabapentin on Thursday.
I give the pill in the evening. He won't poop all day until I give the gabapentin. For the last two days after giving the pill he starts pooping every hour throughout the night. He paces and can't settle. Now, he is not eating even though he has had to mirtazapine to make him eat.
I am getting really stressed. I feel like he needs more bloodwork but they can't knock him out to do them with him heaving.

Re: Sick after giving powdered pancreas

Posted: 22 Mar 2020, 20:46
by jilbert57
Your pup is using the gabapentin for pain right?can you try either Cerenia or Tramadol? My pups have all used gabapentin and it just made them sleepy. I just dosed them down and it was fine. Diarrhea and vomiting are both side effects of Gabapentin.


Re: Sick after giving powdered pancreas

Posted: 23 Mar 2020, 11:00
by Michaela
Nikki has been dealing with stomach issues for years, which I am convinced are related to the enzymes.

Stomach cramps, loud gurgling noises, not drinking/eating, gas/pain, eating grass, colitis.

Test after test at Texas A&M didn't really show much, they think she has GI motility but the meds didn't make any difference. It started out with an episode just every few months and when she was really bad I would take her in for some fluids and she would bounce back within 20 min and started eating/drinking.

About two years ago her episodes happened almost weekly and she was hiding in pain more and more. We had exhausted every test and tried so many things that didn't make a difference, her quality of life was suffering.

That's when I came across Slippery Elm syrup and something just told me to give it a try, we didn't have anything to lose at this point. I had tried SE in the past in powder form and as tea but it didn't seem to help. After two weeks on the SE syrup she started to improve, symptoms were becoming much less severe.

Her vets still don't believe that the enzymes are the cause but I really don't care, I know what I've seen with my own eyes.

Knock on wood but Nikki hasn't had an episode in 1.5 years now :D

Hopefully you get some answers for Phoenix!

Re: Sick after giving powdered pancreas

Posted: 23 Mar 2020, 19:01
by Madelon
Hi and welcome to our EPI family! I can tell how much your pup means to you by your posts - the love comes through. As Olesia said it's likely not the enzymes themselves causing the issue unless your dog has a sensitivity to pork. I know you're scared and overwhelmed right now, trust me we've all been there, but we will guide you through this and get your pup on track :)

There are four cornerstones to properly managing EPI and without all four in place you won't see optimum results: ENZYMES, B12, ANTIBIOTIC, FOOD

ENZYMES: Most of us use EnzymeDiane Pancreatin 6x - it's much less expensive than the vet enzymes and there is nothing additional added to it like probiotics and B12 (the B12 added to enzymes in most cases is not enough to supplement an EPI dog) - no prescription needed and shipped directly to your home. The recommended starting dose is 1 level teaspoon per cup of kibble, mix in a little luke warm water, mix in kibble an sit 20-30 minutes before serving.

B12: Most EPI dogs have low B12 at diagnosis or will develop it and supplementing is for life. You can either do the shots or use the WonderLabs Pet Factor B12 pills - they contain Intrinsic Factor which can help in the absorption of B12. EPI dogs need their B12 on the HIGH side of normal 600+. Low B12 will affect mood, appetite, weight gain, poop quality.

ANTIBIOTICS: We now know that all EPI dogs have SID (small intestinal dysbiosis) but the key is to manage it and keep it from flaring up. We recommend in the beginning giving the proper dose of enzymes, B12 and food two weeks to see if the gut will correct itself on it's own. If it doesn't then you can try Slippery Elm Bark powder or a 45 day course of Tylan antibiotics.

FOOD: We recommend grain free with 4% fiber or less and avoid or limit peas. Feed 150% of the food for the weight your dog SHOULD be but in smaller, more frequent meals throughout the day. This can be the hardest part of EPI so buy small bags until you find what works for your dog.

QUESTIONS: What was the TLI, B12 and FOLATE scores from the test? What food are you currently feeding and how much? Are you supplementing B12?

Keep a detailed journal of everything you give and the resulting poops so you'll know what's working and what isn't and try not to stress too much - we're gonna hold your hand through this.