Riley update and.. is this a creon alternative?

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Dani
Member
Posts: 7
Location: Concepcion City
Country: Chile
Pet name: Riley
My name: Danisse

Riley update and.. is this a creon alternative?

Post by Dani » 19 Apr 2020, 17:59

I wrote a post a couple of weeks ago to ask for guidance because of Riley's recent EPI diagnosis. She is doing so much better now! I was worried at the time because she was in pain and not feeling well, but now she is her usual hyper self. I was giving her Creon and after a week on it she improved a lot :D

But now, because of Covid19 there is a shortage of Creon in my city and now I cant find it anywhere 😩 I called Riley's vet and he recommended something called Flapex E as a replacement for Creon.

The ingredients are:

Amylase 25 mg; Bile 25 mg; Pancreatin 100 mg; Pepsin 50 mg; Simethicone 60 mg.

Do you guys know if this could work? If not, what do you recommend ? Are there any other alternatives to Creon? (I mean, something for humans that I could buy in a drugstore)

Thank you so much for your help! In my other post you all helped me so so much!

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Olesia711
Founder
Posts: 1223
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Riley update and.. is this a creon alternative?

Post by Olesia711 » 19 Apr 2020, 19:48

YIKES!!! that is very bad news if they are out of CREON.... that is what Cystic Fibrosis patients take.... such sad times!
The product you mentioned has most of the right stuff to treat EPI however it is a low dose - - can you check the website and see if it say anywhere that this product is "entertic coated" CREON is enteric coated and that is why you can take a low dose of CREON because the majority of it is not destroyed by stomach acids before it is utilized, Whereas pancreatin powder, we guess about 70% of it is destroyed before it gets to the right place and utilized.... that is why powdered enzymes are so much stronger. . what were you using CREON 10 or CREON 12 ?

SO... yes, go ahead and use this product.... but you might have to try different doses to see what works best for your dog.... and let me know if it is enteric coated or just a pill.

I'll look on the conversion chart now to see what pancreatin 100mg is in regards to 71,000 USP units of Lipase (Pancreatin powder that we use for dogs) and/or CREON10 or 12.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Olesia711
Founder
Posts: 1223
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Riley update and.. is this a creon alternative?

Post by Olesia711 » 19 Apr 2020, 20:30

near as i can figure out... Pancreatin 100mg has not less than 200 USP units of Lipase in it... which is the most important enzyme of the 3 needed to sustain an EPI dog.... if enteric coated, you can work with this... if not enteric coated.... this is way less than what your dog needs..... BUT... what you can do is check around to see if you can get raw beef pancreas. If yes, then you can either use all raw beef pancreas (i'll help you with how to do this) or supplement the Flapex E (if it is not enteric coated) with raw pancreas and this should work until, you can get CREON again.

I am so sorry this is happening........... Please keep me posted. I'll check back later to see if you found out if this product is enteric coated or not....
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Dani
Member
Posts: 7
Location: Concepcion City
Country: Chile
Pet name: Riley
My name: Danisse

Re: Riley update and.. is this a creon alternative?

Post by Dani » 19 Apr 2020, 22:02

Thank you so much for your replies!

I was giving Riley Creon 25.000 and i sprinkled the contents of one capsule over her meal (she eats twice a day, so two capsules a day),

I bought Flapex E to see how it was, and like creon, its a capsule. i opened it and it has a very bright orange powder inside (is this what you mean with enteric coated vs regular pill?). I'll try to sprinkle it on her food to see if she likes it, she is so picky 😩 (that's really my fault, I spoil her too much).

I will check if i can get raw beef pancreas. Do I need to cook it? how many grams should she eat? (She currently eats 180gr of her dry dog food, Vet Life Gastrointestinal. She weights 9.5 kg/ 20.9 pounds).

Thank you again for your help! 🙌

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Olesia711
Founder
Posts: 1223
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Riley update and.. is this a creon alternative?

Post by Olesia711 » 20 Apr 2020, 14:26

if it is powder in those capsules, i strongly suspect that it is not enteric coated. enteric coated is itty bitty tiny balls of medicine that are coated. So i would continue give these capsules but supplement with something else like raw beef pancreas.

FEEDING RAW PANCREAS: If you would like to try using raw pancreas; fresh beef, pork or lamb pancreas are recommended. One to three or four ounces of raw pancreas can replace one teaspoon of pancreatic extract. Raw pancreas may be frozen in cubes for future use and thawed naturally, but never heat on the stove or in the microwave.

Suggested way to handle.... take raw pancreas, blend to a puree in a blender, freeze in an ice cube tray (calculate how much a cube holds--if 1 ounce or more or less), and take out as many cubes to have approximately 3 to 4 ounces of raw pureed pancreas defrosted to room temperature and mix with meal . 3 to 4 ounces of raw pancreas is equivalent to 1 level teaspoon of powdered enzymes used for 1 cup of food.

If possible beef or lamb raw pancreas is recommended over pork pancreas because of the “possibility” of the transmission of pseudorabies, although rare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorabies

Also… raw pancreas is not all the same. Each and every gland has a different potency of enzymes. This is not just species to species. The potency can vary from one farm animal to another farm animal as well. If you use 1 ounce of raw pancreas with the batch you are currently using the next batch may need to be tweaked. Fresh pancreas has a shelf life (in the freezer) of up to 3 months.

Of course you still might have to play around with the dose, but this should be a good starting place.

Also.... i spoke to EnzymeDiane today for the enzymes that many of us use... she has never shipped her enzymes to Chili, but she has shipped elsewhere in the world.... if you want... check with your postal service and ask if you ordered powdered pancreatin enzymes for your dog from the USA, would this be held up at customs or what.... you can also talk to Diane if you'd like. Her contact information is: diane@enzymediane.com or you can call her is you want at: 1-440-479-5526
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Barb
Staff
Posts: 455
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Riley update and.. is this a creon alternative?

Post by Barb » 20 Apr 2020, 14:29

I am so sorry you are going through this. The effects of the covid-19 virus are so far-reaching. I hope you and Olesia and Diane can figure out a plan that will carry you through until you can get the Creon.

I will be following your thread. Good Luck.

Barb

Dani
Member
Posts: 7
Location: Concepcion City
Country: Chile
Pet name: Riley
My name: Danisse

Re: Riley update and.. is this a creon alternative?

Post by Dani » 22 Apr 2020, 10:54

Olesia711 wrote:
20 Apr 2020, 14:26
if it is powder in those capsules, i strongly suspect that it is not enteric coated. enteric coated is itty bitty tiny balls of medicine that are coated. So i would continue give these capsules but supplement with something else like raw beef pancreas.

FEEDING RAW PANCREAS: If you would like to try using raw pancreas; fresh beef, pork or lamb pancreas are recommended. One to three or four ounces of raw pancreas can replace one teaspoon of pancreatic extract. Raw pancreas may be frozen in cubes for future use and thawed naturally, but never heat on the stove or in the microwave.

Suggested way to handle.... take raw pancreas, blend to a puree in a blender, freeze in an ice cube tray (calculate how much a cube holds--if 1 ounce or more or less), and take out as many cubes to have approximately 3 to 4 ounces of raw pureed pancreas defrosted to room temperature and mix with meal . 3 to 4 ounces of raw pancreas is equivalent to 1 level teaspoon of powdered enzymes used for 1 cup of food.

If possible beef or lamb raw pancreas is recommended over pork pancreas because of the “possibility” of the transmission of pseudorabies, although rare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorabies

Also… raw pancreas is not all the same. Each and every gland has a different potency of enzymes. This is not just species to species. The potency can vary from one farm animal to another farm animal as well. If you use 1 ounce of raw pancreas with the batch you are currently using the next batch may need to be tweaked. Fresh pancreas has a shelf life (in the freezer) of up to 3 months.

Of course you still might have to play around with the dose, but this should be a good starting place.

Also.... i spoke to EnzymeDiane today for the enzymes that many of us use... she has never shipped her enzymes to Chili, but she has shipped elsewhere in the world.... if you want... check with your postal service and ask if you ordered powdered pancreatin enzymes for your dog from the USA, would this be held up at customs or what.... you can also talk to Diane if you'd like. Her contact information is: diane@enzymediane.com or you can call her is you want at: 1-440-479-5526
Hi again! I gave Riley Flapex E for the last two days and the results were - as expected - not so good. She ate the powder just fine with her food. But she is bloated and I can tell she is not feeling great. I called two of the big drugstores here and I found out Creon is out of stock in the whole country! I was hoping I could find it in the city my mother lives in so she could ship it but no luck in that.

I haven't been able to find beef pancreas yet, but I plan to go out this afternoon to butcher shops until I find some.

I want to buy EnzymeDiane so bad! I've been reading and it seems it works wonderfully, but the paperwork to import anything medicine-related here in Chile is crazy. I'm looking into it though!

Browsing online, I found this medication... Could this be an option? It's called ENZY-BIOTIC, they are tablets specially made for dogs and cats with absorption issues. They are in stock here in pet stores, I also found them in Amazon

Its made of:

Pancreatine 4 x 100 mg
Amylase 10.000
Peptidase 10.000
Lipase 2.500
Lactobacillus acidophilus 200 mg

Dani
Member
Posts: 7
Location: Concepcion City
Country: Chile
Pet name: Riley
My name: Danisse

Re: Riley update and.. is this a creon alternative?

Post by Dani » 22 Apr 2020, 17:44

After numerous calls, I found Creon 10.000 in a teeny tiny drugstore here! I'm beyond happy! I called all of the big chain drugstores and none of them had any Creon, I didnt think I would have luck in any other store! I had a hunch and called and they had around six boxes of 10.000.

Anyway, Now I can give her Creon and make her feel better! I was devastated because last night she was bloated and not feeling good at all.

Meanwhile I can do the paperwork chilean customs requiere so I can import EnzymeDiane! :D

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Olesia711
Founder
Posts: 1223
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Riley update and.. is this a creon alternative?

Post by Olesia711 » 22 Apr 2020, 23:10

I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo glad you found some CREON...... i was so upset to learn from you that they are running out of CREON because of the COVD 19..... not only for our EPI dogs, but so many people world wide depend on CREON.

That is wonderful that you can fill out customs paperwork and get the enzymes from Diane... have you spoken (or emailed her) also... it would be so good to have a 2nd source of enzymes considering all that is going on in the world today!

Please continue to keep us posted!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Jean
Staff
Posts: 957
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Riley update and.. is this a creon alternative?

Post by Jean » 23 Apr 2020, 08:44

oh wow this so reminds me of my friend Devika who lives in the foothills of the Himalayas, she was devastated she couldnt find Creon, and the, she found it in a tiny drug store

Good luck keep in touch

jeanxxxxx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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