Question about burping, hacking cough, wheezing after eating, etc.

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
User avatar
sapresley
Member
Posts: 16
Country: United States
State: Louisiana
Pet name: Maddie
My name: Sherry

Question about burping, hacking cough, wheezing after eating, etc.

Post by sapresley » 07 May 2020, 14:53

Maddie has been an EPI dog for a few years now and since moving from Washington State to Louisiana 5 months ago, some things have started and until they are added up, do they cause concern to me. Maddie is on a diet of Darwin's Raw food. For a 1/2lb package of raw food, I add 1 tsp of enzyme Diane (6x), 1 tsp Slippery Elm, 1/2 cup Kefir (made from Organic Cow's milk), 3 capsules of B12, 1 squirt of Wild Salmon oil. I microwave the raw food for 1 minute which barely cooks it, but Holistic Vet in WA thought it might help her digest it a little easier since she is 12. ! add the kefir and oil and stir in to cool down cooked meat, then add other dry ingredients and let sit for 20 minutes.

After she eats she sounds like she has a thick mucus plug in her throat - her breathing sounds a bit like wheezing, but she doesn't seem to be struggling for breath. After about half an hour it goes away. But, her stomach is still making noise and the end of many stools is not solid at all and sometimes yellow. She gets excited and starts a hacking cough which lasts a couple minutes and leads her to open her mouth to expectorate, but nothing comes up. In WA sometimes a little mucous would come up, 1/2 tsp maybe. She goes through this hacking cough often throughout the day, as she gets so excited everytime a cat walks across her sightline, or a person or a new car in a driveway where they don't belong - according to Miss Maddie of course. She's my alarm system.
There are times when she will be laying down and will bring up some food and that's usually fast and silent. She moves around quite a bit. Goes from one laying position to another. When we go to bed at night, she is moving every couple of minutes all over the bed, as long as she can touch me in some way. The last few nights, I've gone back out to the couch to sleep because she sleeps with her butt on a pillow and her head and front paws are on the armrest - in the corner of the couch, sitting up. Before she had EPI problems, this was her preferred position. But, now, it seems like her discomfort is not as bad when she can sleep sitting up. Makes sense, if she's experiencing heartburn, many people are told to sleep with the head of their bed elevated.
I don't have a specialist vet here, but he is recently out of school and has at least heard of EPI and he is working with me. My specialist in WA however, never would treat her with antibiotics for SID. A nice lady from this group did send me some Tylan and I used it on her and it seemed at the time to stop the tummy noises. I think she still has SID, even with the Slippery Elm. I don't know what nausea looks like in a dog, but understand they like their lips a lot with it, which she does at times. I started giving her Kefir because of bad, bad gas emissions and that has taken care of the gas for the most part. But, there is the occasional burping, the hacking cough, frequently bringing a little bit of food up, although not daily.
She has also gotten dandruff, which this vet says is an allergy. Dogs break out with skin problems with allergies first, rather than the sneezing humans due upon an allergy in the air. Riding in the car without air conditioning a month ago, she did start sneezing several times in a row. Later, when vet listened to her chest, she sounded a little less clear than before. She has developed a heart murmur before we moved and the vet here caught it as well, but says she doesn't need any medication for it as yet.
Sorry this is so long, I'm just trying to not leave anything out. Should I be giving her an antacid? Vet said to give her 1/4 tablet of Zyrtec for allergies, but haven't been able to give her those easily aka without her knowing she was taking it.
I came to all of you because I trust you can recognize symptoms and let me know what you think that I'm not understanding. I realized when typing up directions for feeding Maddie, that anyone walking in and trying to follow those directions would have a spinning head before they ever got to preparing the food! I've been with this routine for a few years now and I still don't recognize everything that is happening to my little fur baby. I can't tell when she's in pain or discomfort from upset tummy.

Any ideas or help I would greatly appreciate, Vets seem to want to go on a wait and see program. My doctor did that to me for two years and resulted in osteopenia and finally surgery. As it was, my health was affected because of her wait and see attitude. I don't want the health and well being of my baby to be my fault.
Thank you for reading this far!
Sherry

User avatar
jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 962
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Question about burping, hacking cough, wheezing after eating, etc.

Post by jilbert57 » 07 May 2020, 15:28

Has your pup been on any antibiotic for SID/SIBO? The gurgling stomach might be SID.

https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/

Jill
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 13, TJ is a 4 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder
Posts: 1255
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Question about burping, hacking cough, wheezing after eating, etc.

Post by Olesia711 » 07 May 2020, 23:08

Hi ... Maddie looks like such a little cutie... sorry she is having these issues.

Yes it sounds like she has SID and maybe even something else going on.... with the hacking. That part may or may not be EPI related.
My thought is that she does need to be on an antibiotic, like Tylan, for 45 days, twice a day for SID. The majority of the symptoms that you are describing sound like typical SID.

HOWEVER... i do have some questions for you. How much does Maddie weigh and why are you giving 3 B12 capsules a day. Are these Wonderlabs Trinfac B or Pet Factor B12 capsules??? WIth out knowing her weight specifically, just by going by her picture, i suspect you are giving way too much B12... but i would like clarification on what B12 product you are really using and what Maddie weighs.

Next. You mentioned that you are warming the raw food up slightly in the microwave. When you do you wait until the food has cooled down before you add the enzymes ? I just want to make sure this is what you are doing.

Next... you mentioned that you are giving 1 tsp of Slippery Elm powder.....the only dogs that should be getting 1 tsp of SLippery ELm powder would be if they weighed over 100lbs....and from the picture Maddie doesn't look that big........ With SLippery ELm, if you give too much it can have the opposite effect like loose stools, tummy gurgling, etc. from too much fiber content.... so again, it would be really helpful to know how much Maddie weighs. The SLippery Elm dosing chart is on this page: https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/

And last i noticed you give 1 tsp enzyme diane's enzymes per 1/2 pound raw (slightly cooked) food which is equivalent to 1 cup plus 1/2 cup of kefir. Because you are adding 1/2 cup of kefir. It is possible that Maddie might need a little more enzymes added to the meal, like maybe and addition 1/4 tsp of enzymes. THis may or may not be a possibility, but i thought i best mention it for now.

The symptoms that do not sound like typical EPI (but does not mean that this is not from SID) are these symptoms:
"thick mucus plug in her throat - her breathing sounds a bit like wheezing, but she doesn't seem to be struggling for breath. After about half an hour it goes away". This could be SID related, although IMHO, i would have this checked out for other possibilities. Maybe do some research and see if what Maddie is displaying sounds like possible MegaE or something with the esophagus. Coughing with mucus after eating/after getting excited can is making me wonder if there is something amiss in this area. Or it could be a sinus issue or a heart issue. In any case, these are some of the things that come to mind.... OR......... this could all be nothing more than a gastrointestinal issue which could all be stemming from SID....

Not sure if this was helpful or not....
If you can get back to use regarding Maddie weight, why 3 B12 capsules, and exactly when do you add the enyzmes (and maybe need to include a pinch more).... we hopefully will be able to better help you figure out what to try next.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

User avatar
sapresley
Member
Posts: 16
Country: United States
State: Louisiana
Pet name: Maddie
My name: Sherry

Re: Question about burping, hacking cough, wheezing after eating, etc.

Post by sapresley » 09 May 2020, 05:42

I recalled after I posted I hadn't clarified some things and thankfully you all caught it. Maddie weighs about 8.6lbs. She was up to 9lbs then ate something which I think were cat droppings - lot of feral cats around here and she didn't eat for about 2 days and the weight came back off. Now she is on a leash in front yard when I go out there to garden :).

I microwave the meat for 1 minute and stir it up afterward so it continues cooking what hasn't been cooked and to cool it off. I add the chilled Kefir and chilled Salmon oil and stir that up, check the temp before adding the enzymes and other dry ingredients.
The amount of food I made her is for about a 12 hour time period. Last few days she's been eating more at one time and the food has lasted her from about 6:30am to 6 - 8pm. Sometimes there is enough left over for breakfast the next morning. She's been eating more at one time this week, so 1 pkg of meat will last her for 3 meals.

The B12 capsules are Wonderlabs PET B12 with Folic Acid & Intrinsic Factor. Am I giving too much or the wrong one?

It appears I am giving too much Slippery Elm to her and that may be part of the problem. I thought I had read everything on that, but apparently not. Moving will do that to a person I'm told:)

I have revealed all I feed Maddie to the new vet here that does listen to me and checks everything out through Texas A&M, but that doesn't mean he knows better than EPI parents :D
If I'm feeding too much of something, I'm open to advise, because I feel slightly adrift in opinions from Vets in the past.
She does have a heart murmur but the vet here doesn't feel the need to put her on medication as long as her lungs are clear and fluid isn't being retained.

If I have missed something let me know. Thank you for all your support to me and so many others.
Sincerely
Sherry & Maddie

User avatar
Montgomery
Member
Posts: 25
Country: Canada
Pet name: Montgomery (I'm a CAT!)
My name: V

Re: Question about burping, hacking cough, wheezing after eating, etc.

Post by Montgomery » 09 May 2020, 10:38

Maddie is a very small dog and is an older dog. Is there any chance this could be collapsing trachea?
Montgomery was born 20 March 2012. He eats Royal Canin Spayed/Neutered Kitten dry food and Royal Canin Ultra Light wet food. He takes two size zero capsules of Enzyme Diane's Enzymes with each meal, and gets one number four capsule of Tylosin three times a day. He also gets half a millilitre of Ovol twice a day. Montgomery is a fierce, unflappable little guy. Strong, independent and awesome.

User avatar
Madelon
President
Posts: 941
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Question about burping, hacking cough, wheezing after eating, etc.

Post by Madelon » 09 May 2020, 10:53

Hi! I'm so sorry you and Maddie are going through this. Olesia pointed out all of the things I was thinking.

First, you are giving too much WonderLab pills. For her size she would only need 1/4 of a capsule daily. With that being said, some smaller dogs have required a tad more, but if I were you I would take a capsule open it up and divide into 4 equal parts and give one of those 4 equal parts daily.

Second, with regard to the Slippery Elm, yes that is too much for her size. I give my 100lb Shepherd 1/2tsp with each meal. For her size, we recommend 1/8tsp - be sure you mix it with a little water as it is a mucilage.

Third, it does sound like it's SID so I would recommend a 45 day course of Tylan to help get everything back in balance, but remember to slowly wean off of the Tylan don't quit cold turkey.

I would recommend having a vet check her out to be sure there's nothing non-EPI related going on, but I'm wondering if it could be from using too much Slippery Elm and especially if it wasn't moistened first. Also, are you mixing the enzymes with a little luke warm water?
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

User avatar
sapresley
Member
Posts: 16
Country: United States
State: Louisiana
Pet name: Maddie
My name: Sherry

Re: Question about burping, hacking cough, wheezing after eating, etc.

Post by sapresley » 21 May 2020, 15:51

Hello again. Good news, Vet prescribed Tylan in liquid form. It came and I gave her prescribed dose, 1/2 ml same day and she slept through the night last night! No moving around, burping, etc. I woke up to go potty before she did this morning! I had called and requested a prescription of it for her since all they had around here at Tractor Supply was the injectable kind for farm animals and vet agreed that it sounded like it would do her good even though he wouldn't give diagnosis over phone that she did have SID. I am glad he trusted my opinion enough to prescribe it without wanting to see her. Down here they have been slammed seeing pets for last couple weeks.

I also followed recommendations on reducing her Slippery Elm to 1/4 tsp and her B12 from pet factor - reduced it to recommend amount I wrote it all down so as not to forget it.

I can't thank you sweet gals for the help you are always so willing to give. I got a puppy last week and found out it's 5.5 months old and she got her first checkup and shot. Part Fox Terrier and she has livened up Maddie and I and I'm hoping her joy for life will rub off on us all, especially now that we have at least gotten through this latest hurdle.

If anyone has any experience with an EPI dog in a hot, humid climate I'd love to hear from them or hear any advise. Maddie is 12 and I dan't want to stress her in this much warmer climate, but don't want to keep her locked in air conditioning all day either. She hasn't wanted to go walking for about a month now and I'm hoping it was due to discomfort with her EPI. Walking in early morning is coolest time of day right now. By August there won't be a coolest part of the day below 80 degrees! She pants quickly and quite a bit when she's excited, so it's hard to tell if she's panting due to being hot or excited or both. She pants in the house lightly and I've got air conditioning on just below 80 with ceiling fan on high - for my comfort. She doesn't get hit by direct flow of air from fan where she sits at window unless she wants to feel it and moves closer to it.

Thank you
Sherry

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder
Posts: 1255
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Question about burping, hacking cough, wheezing after eating, etc.

Post by Olesia711 » 31 May 2020, 15:06

Hi Sherry,

SO sorry, glad to hear that Maddie is now on Tylan and doing better.

Regarding an EPI dog in a hot humid part of the country..... makes no difference to the EPI condition.

I suspect Maddie might be huffing and puffing is because as you suspected, it's just the heat. I had 3 Spanish water dogs and one would actually avoid walking where ever the sun shone and clung to shady areas... it was funny to watch. My EPI gal and my older dog used compete with each other when we first came in the house and would both swan dive for the floor air conditioner registers.... they LOVED the cooler air. My middle dog could care less one way or the other..... and my previous dog was the opposite she LOVED the sun.... and would literally follow the sunshine and lay in it's path.... We live in North Carolina and it can get very hot and humid here.

SO.... my thought is that some dogs just like the sun and others not so much. ........................
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

User avatar
sapresley
Member
Posts: 16
Country: United States
State: Louisiana
Pet name: Maddie
My name: Sherry

Re: Question about burping, hacking cough, wheezing after eating, etc.

Post by sapresley » 02 Jun 2020, 15:08

Olesia,
Thanks for the opinion about southern climates! WA state and Louisiana are such extremes in the way of humidity and hotter sun. I know when it started to warm up down here a couple months ago, she went off her food and about the same time other dogs I know of did same thing. But, she really is an inside dog, a ride around in the car dog, occasional walk dog, but not hang out with mom in the hot yard and garden dog. Dogs are adaptable, but at her age, the humid south may not be the best climate for her. Thank goodness for air conditioning and clean air ducts!
As far as her health - I have been giving Maddie her 1/2 ML of antibiotic once a day and at first it worked, but now I'm thinking I should give it 2 times a day. 1/2 ML is one drop literally. I gave her med this morning with breakfast around 6:30am, it's now 1:40pm, she's had lunch and tummy is making SID noises. Her poop has also turned a light - medium gray color which mean she's not getting any nutrition I think. I've increased her enzymes as someone, can't recall who, said I should for amount of food and kefir I give her. I'm starting to wonder if a completely raw diet is too hard on her system. It's perfectly balanced since I buy it from Darwin's in Olympia, WA. With her age, I'm wondering if I should cook the meat more for her. Does anyone have any experience with older dogs and raw diets? I have been reducing the amount of B12 with Intrinsic Factor and am wondering if that could be what is turning her poo gray? I called my vet about doubling the antibiotic which is liquid version of Tylan. I'm ok with keeping her on the antibiotic as a control measure just so she can sleep well at night and not have so many episodes of gagging, nausea and changing positions at night so often. I lose my place typing this since puppy woke up and is licking my ear, neck, arm, any part of me she can reach with her tongue and teeth! Puppy asleep again, thank goodness.
I do appreciate all the help this site gives me and many other shaky, prone to panic fur mommies:) There is nothing like hands on experience versus a vet going according to scientific opinion.
Thank you again
Sherry/Maddie's mom

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder
Posts: 1255
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Question about burping, hacking cough, wheezing after eating, etc.

Post by Olesia711 » 02 Jun 2020, 21:12

Hi!

Thanks for giving us a little more "Maddie info".... yes, the Tylan should be given twice a day; with or around breakfast and dinner.....however the dose you are giving may not be enough. . it may not be enough. We typically recommend tylan (Tylosin Tartrate 100 grams) Soluble powder. Please check potency of the liquid Tylan you have and compare it to the powder that we recommend... and then check to see if you are givng the right amount based on Maddie's weight. If you go to this page, you will see the TYlan information.
https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/

That poo color..is it truly a light gray color.... and increasing the enzymes is a good plan! as gray-ish is malabsorption.........
or...... is it kind of a very light pasty color????..... . ... if it is a very light pasty color.... i would call the vet and have them check Maddie out as sometimes that is an indication that there could be a liver issue going on............
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 55 guests