Another Finn Update

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Olesia711
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by Olesia711 » 25 Feb 2019, 19:38

Just wondering.... instead of putting salmon oil on the food... can you give Finn EFA capsules???? They might not be as good as salmon oil, but at least he won't taste the essential fatty acids in capsule form... or does he have issues swallowing pills?

If yes.... can you give him kippers in oil or water with low or no salt? (or sardines) ???

Just wondering............
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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worriedparents
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by worriedparents » 27 Feb 2019, 12:46

Fish was the first protein we thought was giving Finn a problem. He arrived from the rescue with a fish based food, and we used to give him sardines. He stopped eating the fish based food early on, especially when his stomach issues/diarrhea got worse, so we switched him to a chicken based dog food. Later when we tried the fish based food again (and sardines), after he stopped eating chicken, fish appeared to give problems. Although we didn't notice the salmon oil causing a problem, probably because it was a small amount. He can take pills, he just doesn't like to and sometimes spits them out, but he already has to take quite a few every day.

Last night he ate turkey (begrudgingly) and he was out of sorts and rubbing his face and pawing his eyes so we gave him Reactine so he could settle down. Not sure if it was a delayed reaction to eating chicken for a couple days or now he's having problems with turkey too. Pretty soon we are going to be down to very exotic meats. He's having gas, which he didn't have before, since using slippery elm.
Adopted Finn 4 years ago. He's 7 maybe 8 years old? Reoccurring diarrhea, picky eater and loss of appetite from day 1. Low B12 causing hind-end weakness in July 2017. B12 injections didn't help his appetite, diarrhea or energy like we thought they should have. I found this wonderful forum and learned about EPI, which he doesn’t have, and SIBO/SID which he does have. On Tylosin and B12 pills with intrinsic factor long-term. Blood clot in his left femoral artery in July 2018, which Clopidogrel and Xareltro helped clear up, also long-term. Latest problems since fall 2018 are food sensitivities and (misdiagnosed) UTI causing incontinence.

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Patsy
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by Patsy » 27 Feb 2019, 16:20

Have you considered using the totally non-allergenic hydrolysed dog foods from Hills or Royal Canin, on prescription? This would give your confused boys’ gut a rest, and a chance to recover .

I appreciate he doesn’t have epi, so we have no idea whether it is ulcerated, has IBD or IBS, or coeliac. These have different dietary needs. Some no fibre, some more. Gluten free or whole grain? Which protein, and so on . Have you had

A point re any allergy type tests.. no antihistamines for a specified period before or the results are null and void.
Nutriscan points out that it is for sensitivities, not actual allergy. It is a result for that particular days sample, not forever. Not everyone agrees that it works.
As the inflamed gut recovers, the adverse effects of some irritating foods will get better. With the itchy eyes are you giving him any antihistamine drops to help.
My best wishes to Finn, it’s been difficult for him, and he needs stability.
Springer spaniel Marti had Epi, PLE , MMM just to confuse me. She lived till 12yrs, chubby and happy despite eight years of epi.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.

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worriedparents
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by worriedparents » 27 Feb 2019, 21:38

I've thought about hydrolyzed but he will not eat dry dog food. He will spit it out on the floor and starve himself. We've been down that road. A 140 lb dog on strictly prescription canned food is going to be very costly when his meds are already $400.00+/month (down from $800.00+ and that may increase back up again depending on what the ultrasound next week shows). I don't think we could do a prescribed hydrolyzed diet long term. As it is, his grocery bill rivals ours because we don't really eat meat.

We've been home cooking for him and gave him protein he hadn't had before, and he was doing well on turkey till recently. Yesterday he got sweet potato, today it was carrots, he used to get both together. We'll see if it was the sweet potato that bothered him yesterday instead of turkey. But we have fed him the exact same food and he may be bothered one day and not the next. I got the probiotic I ordered and I'm afraid to give it to him incase he somehow gets worse or doesn't want to eat when it goes on his food. I'm getting very tired, frustrated and discouraged by it all. Can't imagine how he feels.

No, hadn't thought of the eyedrops. Will have to look into that. Thanks.
Adopted Finn 4 years ago. He's 7 maybe 8 years old? Reoccurring diarrhea, picky eater and loss of appetite from day 1. Low B12 causing hind-end weakness in July 2017. B12 injections didn't help his appetite, diarrhea or energy like we thought they should have. I found this wonderful forum and learned about EPI, which he doesn’t have, and SIBO/SID which he does have. On Tylosin and B12 pills with intrinsic factor long-term. Blood clot in his left femoral artery in July 2018, which Clopidogrel and Xareltro helped clear up, also long-term. Latest problems since fall 2018 are food sensitivities and (misdiagnosed) UTI causing incontinence.

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Olesia711
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by Olesia711 » 01 Mar 2019, 20:05

If he is having gas and you think it started AFTER the Slippery Elm..... stop the SLippery Elm.... it may be too much for him... or.. i wonder if he has a sensitivity to elm tree that could be doing this.....?? Poor fella has so much going on....

Sorry about the fish... sounds like he can't have that either... :(

YIKES... that is one massive grocery bill ... i am so sorry you are struggling so with Finn... i wish there was an easy answer we could just give you....but he sure is a very convoluted case.

right now, i am out of ideas.... but i will try to think of something..... if i do, i'll pop back on.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Madelon
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by Madelon » 01 Mar 2019, 20:25

I'm sure you've tried this as it seems you've tried everything, but how is he if you mix can with dry? I'm so sorry you're having such a difficult time.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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worriedparents
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by worriedparents » 01 Mar 2019, 21:46

The gas isn't smelly, but he's definitely had some when he didn't before and the only thing that was different was slippery elm added, and at only 1/2 tsp or less. I'll stop that. The last couple days I've started to sprinkle some of the probiotic I got, a VERY small amount to start and that hasn't done anything adverse so far. I'm not sure if the d-mannose is causing a reaction or not, I think it might be. Gotta pay more attention to that one. Since taking away sweet potato and just having carrots there's been no need for Reactine. His poops have remained fine throughout this latest sensitivity flare-up. No problem there.

We tried canned food with dry and he'd spit out the dry and then would refuse food that had any dry in it, or was very slow and reluctant to eat it. We questioned if it was because of his horrible broken teeth. I think he just didn't like it, or maybe he knew it was hard to digest.

The rescue said he ate 8 cups of (strictly) dry food/day. We could barely get 3 into him from the moment he arrived. My husband thinks that was a scare tactic to see if we were serious about of the cost of a big dog. 8 cups of dry food/day, we'd be laughing now :roll: He arrived with a bad gut or the stress of a new place threw him off because he had a lot of anxiety too. They also said he gained weight very quickly at the rescue. 60 lbs in 5 months (if they info in his bio was correct) because he was really emaciated when he was rescued. I'd love to know what kind of food they were feeding him to achieve that. Only when we starting home cooked did he appear to have any appetite at all, and really not till he got on Tylosin. When articles say, feed a new food that the dog's not had in the past for sensitivities, we have no idea what food we was exposed to in the past.
Adopted Finn 4 years ago. He's 7 maybe 8 years old? Reoccurring diarrhea, picky eater and loss of appetite from day 1. Low B12 causing hind-end weakness in July 2017. B12 injections didn't help his appetite, diarrhea or energy like we thought they should have. I found this wonderful forum and learned about EPI, which he doesn’t have, and SIBO/SID which he does have. On Tylosin and B12 pills with intrinsic factor long-term. Blood clot in his left femoral artery in July 2018, which Clopidogrel and Xareltro helped clear up, also long-term. Latest problems since fall 2018 are food sensitivities and (misdiagnosed) UTI causing incontinence.

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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My name: olesia

Re: Another Finn Update

Post by Olesia711 » 01 Mar 2019, 23:01

have you tried dry soak in turkey broth (since he appears to be able to tolerate turkey)????
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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worriedparents
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by worriedparents » 02 Mar 2019, 08:41

We are currently using Stella and Chewy's Turkey Meal Mixers. Freeze dried turkey (plus other foods) that makes a broth when water is added. He likes those. My husband gave about double the amount I have been for his evening meal. He was more out of sorts last night (wanting outside or thirsty, and he doesn't drink water so if he's thirsty he gets us up to shave ice or wants outside to eat snow), than he had been the night before. The next food we'd try is duck, lamb or venison, or hydrolyzed. We've never given him those. It's hard to find dog food that doesn't add (in the fine print) another protein source from his no list (fish, beef, chicken) and then all the other ingredients in it, who knows what he reacts to. I looked in the Nutrascan test and may go that route in a couple weeks, but it's not as straightforward as I would have hoped to get it through customs.
Adopted Finn 4 years ago. He's 7 maybe 8 years old? Reoccurring diarrhea, picky eater and loss of appetite from day 1. Low B12 causing hind-end weakness in July 2017. B12 injections didn't help his appetite, diarrhea or energy like we thought they should have. I found this wonderful forum and learned about EPI, which he doesn’t have, and SIBO/SID which he does have. On Tylosin and B12 pills with intrinsic factor long-term. Blood clot in his left femoral artery in July 2018, which Clopidogrel and Xareltro helped clear up, also long-term. Latest problems since fall 2018 are food sensitivities and (misdiagnosed) UTI causing incontinence.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 1929
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Another Finn Update

Post by Olesia711 » 02 Mar 2019, 16:09

just a thought... before ordering the Nutriscan... maybe contact Dr. Jean Dodds directly and talk to her about getting it thru customs and see what she has to say....... She is very approachable and nice to talk to :)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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