Another Finn Update

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jilbert57
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by jilbert57 » 31 Aug 2019, 09:39

Have you had Finn on a hydrolyzed diet like Royal Canin Ultamino to see how that works?
Just wondering how that would work on the digestion? I know the ingredients aren't prime but it might work.

I was wondering about Pancreatitis. With all the gut activity and restlessness after eating sounds suspicious.

Have a go at the Metoclopramide just bear in mind the side effects while taking it. It did help Mickeys gut motility issues but he couldn't stay on it.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have one pup. TJ is a 5 year old Jack Russell.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Madelon
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by Madelon » 03 Sep 2019, 22:16

Talk about being on a roller coaster - I'm so sorry!! I think Jill had a good idea - especially if you're thinking this is IBD/food sensitivities - you might want to try him on the Royal Canin Ultamino - it's one of the few truly hydrolyzed foods. Keeping you both in my prayers.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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worriedparents
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by worriedparents » 04 Sep 2019, 08:27

I think the suspect additive in that raw rabbit meal was eggs, everything else was a vegetable. Makes sense since he reacts to chicken and turkey. We've been feeding him cooked rabbit and plain raw rabbit and have not noticed a reaction yet. Soon we may branch out into other proteins he's not had to test out the reactions to those. I'd like to know we have some we can safely use/rotate.

He greatly prefers raw over cooked, even turning down the cooked alone. The food's texture, temperature and consistency has to be just right or he won't eat, or he may like it one day and not the next. He's always been like that, and it leads to a lot of wasted food. He prefers things frozen too. He'll eat a frozen pumpkin cube for example, but doesn't like it when thawed, and definitely not when mixed in his food. Like a kid that doesn't like their food groups touching. He has a big appetite for raw, and fingers crossed that will continue. He'll need it if he's going to get the weight back on. The problem with hydrolyzed or any food is if I find one he will eat (and that is hard with anything commercial), he may eat it one day and not the next.

We're are feeding him laying down 3x/day, giving water really elevated and that (plus trying to get him to eat slower since he really likes raw) has helped with the panting after eating. Sometimes it doesn't happen at all. It usually never happens with AM feeding, rarely in afternoon, but is more common after PM feeding, but not lasting as long. And it's not that he lays down after eating in PM that brings it on, he lays down on his side and sleeps after his meals and it doesn't happen then. He's getting Pepsid in evening and that's probably helping too.

We are playing around finding the right dosage for Tylosin, his poop were really looking good so we cut back but within a day or so it went south again. So the nasties are still in there. Not as many belly gurgles lately, he has more after he drinks water. He's getting goat milk and cheese, instead of dairy and I'm trying him on some water buffalo kefir (rather than cow). He seems to be improving overall, but I'm impatient and want things to turn around faster, or not slide back again. Don't we all?

Jill, what symptoms did you see on Metoclopramide? I've given it to my other pets (different species) but if I remember correctly, it crosses blood/brain barrier. I'd like to get things straightened around with diet alone if at all possible.
Adopted Finn 4 years ago. He's 7 maybe 8 years old? Reoccurring diarrhea, picky eater and loss of appetite from day 1. Low B12 causing hind-end weakness in July 2017. B12 injections didn't help his appetite, diarrhea or energy like we thought they should have. I found this wonderful forum and learned about EPI, which he doesn’t have, and SIBO/SID which he does have. On Tylosin and B12 pills with intrinsic factor long-term. Blood clot in his left femoral artery in July 2018, which Clopidogrel and Xareltro helped clear up, also long-term. Latest problems since fall 2018 are food sensitivities and (misdiagnosed) UTI causing incontinence.

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jilbert57
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by jilbert57 » 04 Sep 2019, 10:02

On the Metoclopramide, Mickey was confused and paced constantly.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have one pup. TJ is a 5 year old Jack Russell.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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worriedparents
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by worriedparents » 01 Dec 2020, 08:55

Hi,
I’ve been meaning to come back and update this old thread and I was surprised to see my last entry was Sept 4, 2019. Sadly we had to let Finn go on Sept 4, 2020.

The GI issues only got worse. I tried fecal transplant pills from the US and I think they helped and bought us more time, but then Covid came and we couldn’t get them shipped to us and by the time they finally arrived they weren’t working for him anymore. Heartburn and food aversion got progressively worse. He had another UTI the last year and more antibiotic use, which was always too hard on him.

He became completely disabled in his hind end after the last UTI and while early on DM was questioned and the neurologist couldn’t make a definitive diagnosis I’m pretty sure he had GOLPP. The larynx paralysis bark wasn’t exactly what I saw with other dogs online but he sure had exercise intolerance and other symptoms of it. He couldn’t walk far and had to be resting/laying down. He could not walk without my husband lifting him and supporting him along the way but he got excited to go for a walk every day, right to his last day. We bought a big utility cart and when he’d gone as far as we thought he could, he’d get in the cart and get pulled around the neighbourhood. He was such a lovely sweet dog.

The house seemed really empty without him here, so we adopted a puppy (Miles) at the beginning of November. He’s going to be another big boy. What were we thinking? LOL A Romanian Mioritic Shepherd likely mixed with a Carpathian Shepherd. We kinda applied for him on a whim and then we panicked and almost backed out. Finn cost so much money to maintain and he sick all the time….we were really scared to have that happen again. I hoped for a dog with normal poop and a cast-iron stomach. Of course, that’s not what we got.

Miles came at 8 weeks old and didn’t have much of an appetite. We slowly switched him over to a different kibble from the one he was supposedly eating at the rescue. That helped a bit. I thought maybe it was stress of settling in too. He got intermittent soft stool, starting about 6 days after he got he and tested positive for Giardia. He did 5 days of Panacur and another 5 days of Panacur and Metro combo. The pattern of formed to unformed poop has remained the same, but otherwise seems healthy. He didn’t seem to be gaining weight was quickly as I heard his siblings were either after he got here, but now his appetite is increasing and he gone from 19 lbs to 31 lbs in the last month. Now he almost weighs as much as the largest puppy in the litter, and that puppy eats twice as much as him. Apparently that puppy eats and eats and eats.... There was a lot of inbreeding at the backyard breeder where the puppies' mother came from and I know at least one dog someone got there said they tested positive for EPI.

I’m already worried Miles has SIBO, or the Giardia simply hasn’t cleared yet….or both. He’s been getting a lot of freeze dried beef liver treats for training and maybe that’s been too rich for him - but he really likes those. I was glad to get in touch with some of the other siblings parent because Miles has been a challenge. He’s very smart and learns fast but these puppies bite and bite hard (repeatedly), beyond the normal puppy nipping. Between that and the poop stuff we were feeling really defeated. Maybe because their mom was feral and didn’t social they well and they that picked up from her or maybe because there is more going on health wise. He’s easily overstimulated and easily frustrated and one of the parents described it as 0 to psycho in 30 secs. That’s accurate. Thankfully he is slowly getting better though but without the treats I’m not sure how it’s going to go. I hate being back on the path of finding what's causing this and how do I help him.
Adopted Finn 4 years ago. He's 7 maybe 8 years old? Reoccurring diarrhea, picky eater and loss of appetite from day 1. Low B12 causing hind-end weakness in July 2017. B12 injections didn't help his appetite, diarrhea or energy like we thought they should have. I found this wonderful forum and learned about EPI, which he doesn’t have, and SIBO/SID which he does have. On Tylosin and B12 pills with intrinsic factor long-term. Blood clot in his left femoral artery in July 2018, which Clopidogrel and Xareltro helped clear up, also long-term. Latest problems since fall 2018 are food sensitivities and (misdiagnosed) UTI causing incontinence.

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jilbert57
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by jilbert57 » 01 Dec 2020, 09:24

I am so sorry to read you had to let Finn go. Sometimes conditions pile up and there are some you just can't get over. Finn is over the Rainbow Bridge playing with Mickey and the others.
I am happy to hear you got Miles but sorry about the tummy issues. Is Miles on Tylan for the suspected SIBO?

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have one pup. TJ is a 5 year old Jack Russell.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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worriedparents
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Country: Canada

Re: Another Finn Update

Post by worriedparents » 01 Dec 2020, 10:22

Thanks Judith. The vet is unsure what's going on and wants to wait to run another fecal for Giardia at the end of this week. A week after he finished the medication. I'm the one that wondering if it's SIBO.
Adopted Finn 4 years ago. He's 7 maybe 8 years old? Reoccurring diarrhea, picky eater and loss of appetite from day 1. Low B12 causing hind-end weakness in July 2017. B12 injections didn't help his appetite, diarrhea or energy like we thought they should have. I found this wonderful forum and learned about EPI, which he doesn’t have, and SIBO/SID which he does have. On Tylosin and B12 pills with intrinsic factor long-term. Blood clot in his left femoral artery in July 2018, which Clopidogrel and Xareltro helped clear up, also long-term. Latest problems since fall 2018 are food sensitivities and (misdiagnosed) UTI causing incontinence.

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worriedparents
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by worriedparents » 01 Dec 2020, 12:01

I should add that even if Miles retests positive for Giardia, I'm not giving him Metronidazole again. Once was too much and I was hesitant to use it at all because I feared it would destroy beneficial bacteria. It didn't change how his poop looked at all anyway. Finn got that several times in the beginning and I still think that made him so much worse later on.

Does Tylosin have any effectiveness on Giardia? We still have lots of Tylosin left over.

Also, when Miles first got here before the poop went soft, he sounded snuffly and started sneezing and even had a cough a couple times. We were experiencing some seasonally warm weather and leaves everywhere so I wondered if it was environmental allergies. He's kibble is chicken based w/grain too. He also scratched quite a bit, at his ears in particular, and he does have some dermatitis on the skin in the abdomen and the vet said it was 'normal puppy' dermatitis. I don't think any of this is exactly normal and why I think his microbiome is not what I'd hoped it would be. He's on Gut Soothe (by Adored Beast) this whole time which has probiotics, larch and Slippery Elm, and it did seem to help the sneezing and snuffly sounds. Although I still think he sounds snuffly in the morning when he wakes up or sometimes when he naps. I tried Mercola probiotics less than 1/2 dose and that gives him horrible smelling gas and pudding poop.
Adopted Finn 4 years ago. He's 7 maybe 8 years old? Reoccurring diarrhea, picky eater and loss of appetite from day 1. Low B12 causing hind-end weakness in July 2017. B12 injections didn't help his appetite, diarrhea or energy like we thought they should have. I found this wonderful forum and learned about EPI, which he doesn’t have, and SIBO/SID which he does have. On Tylosin and B12 pills with intrinsic factor long-term. Blood clot in his left femoral artery in July 2018, which Clopidogrel and Xareltro helped clear up, also long-term. Latest problems since fall 2018 are food sensitivities and (misdiagnosed) UTI causing incontinence.

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Madelon
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by Madelon » 01 Dec 2020, 21:33

I'm so so sorry to read that you had to let Finn cross the Rainbow Bridge. Sometimes the most loving thing we can do for them is to help them cross before they suffer too much and it sounds like that's exactly what you did - you put Finn's comfort and quality of life above your own wishes.

Happy to hear you rescued a new pup - hopefully you can get both the medical and behavioral issues in check quickly. I don't have any experience with giardia but from my experience with volunteering at a rescue I know it can sometimes take several rounds of panacur to get rid of it. I don't know if Tylan would help or not - hopefully Olesia can answer that - as it is a much milder antibiotic but my gut would say try it with the Panacur. From some reading it sounds like the dogs can get recurrent giardia from grooming themselves so if you haven't already - maybe a bath or two while being treated with the panacur would help. Also sterilizing dog beds, blankets etc.

Hope this helps - please keep us posted on how things are going.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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