Newly Diagnosed GSD

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Max'sMom
Member
Posts: 8
Country: United States
State: Colorado
Pet name: Max

Newly Diagnosed GSD

Post by Max'sMom » 05 Jun 2020, 00:06

Hi there!

Soooo thankful I found this site!! Our boy Max was just diagnosed with EPI on Monday. We got him started with B12 shots and enzymes on Tuesday. I'm looking to order from enzymediane.com but am unsure whether to order 6x or 8x. What did you all start with? The enzyme powder the vet sold us was PancrePlus and he prescribed 4 tsp at each meal which seems to be working so far. (Yay for solid poos!)Also, Max has been drinking a lot of water and has had accidents in the house the last two nights. Any ideas what might be causing this? Those are the two questions I have at the moment but I know I'll have more! :shock: Thank you in advance for your guidance!

-Amy

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Newly Diagnosed GSD

Post by Olesia711 » 05 Jun 2020, 11:51

Hi Amy,
So sorry that Max was diagnosed with EPI....but please know that once you find the right "balance" of treatment to manage EPI, you will be amazed at how well these dogs do.

WHen my Izzy was diagnosed 13+ years ago at 1+1/2 years old, the vet said that she would not have lasted another month..... initially we thought we were doing all the right stuff, but Izzy did not respond as expected. I had a wonderful vet who worked with me and we started "tweaking" things one at a time and within 2 weeks we were on the road to recovery. Izzy lived to be 15 years old. She was the happiest dog i ever had and one would never know that she had EPI.

SOOOooo... to answer your questions....

1. both 6x and 8x are great, but for practicality purposes, we typically recommend the 6x because that is most comparable to the brand name enzymes that vets sell you AND (my favorite) because it is easier to calculate how much to give when feeding. With the 6x you start with 1 tsp per 1 cup of food.... with the 8x you start with 1/2 tsp to 3/4 tsp per 1 cup of food.

In short.... some dogs need ore some need less. But this is a starting point for new EPI owners.
Over time (once the dog becomes stable) you can try reducing the amount of enzymes given per cup of food. When you get to that point, just ask and we'll explain.
Over more time (as the dog ages) some dogs need to have the enzymes increased slightly, we noticed this might happen around 4 to 6 yrs of dealing with EPI.

2. Ahhh... the peeing. We see this a LOT. It's the enzymes. Many dogs when first started on the enzymes get very thirsty, drink more and some even have accidents in the house. The good news is that this subsides.
BUT to err on the side of caution.... if this still persists after a few weeks (even though we have had reports of dogs doing this for a month or more before it subsides) just as a precaution, have your vet check Max over to make doubly sure that he is not developing diabetes or has a UTI / Crystals / stones....


Hope this helps!

Oh.. and since you are new.... and just figuring things out.... you might want to start keeping an EPI log (this will help you figure out what the right balance is for Max .. .. go to this page and there are templates that you can use to help you get started. https://epi4dogs.com/epi-log/
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Max'sMom
Member
Posts: 8
Country: United States
State: Colorado
Pet name: Max

Re: Newly Diagnosed GSD

Post by Max'sMom » 05 Jun 2020, 13:38

Thank you so much for getting back to me! I had also reached out to Diane and she recommended I go with the 8X so that's what I ordered this morning. I recognize it will be a little harder because it's 1/2 to 3/4 tsp per cup instead of one-to-one. She also mentioned the dosage prescribed by my vet seemed high (my hubby and I thought so too) so we are systematically scaling it back. I have a log already going so I'm hopeful it will be easy to notice what's working and what's not. I'm hoping to add some carrots to one of Max's meals this weekend so I can get a handle on the timing of his poops as well.

I'm glad to hear the peeing thing is relatively normal at this stage of the game. I was worried we had yet another issue going on and I was about to lose it. :(

Any input on vaccinations (Max is due for his Distemper/Parvo and rabies this month - both 3 year vaccinations) and neutering? I told the vet I'd like to hold off on both until he's put some weight back on. He turned 1 in February and I had him scheduled to be neutered in March and then Covid hit. :/

Thank you again for any help and guidance you can give!!

Amy

Max'sMom
Member
Posts: 8
Country: United States
State: Colorado
Pet name: Max

Re: Newly Diagnosed GSD

Post by Max'sMom » 05 Jun 2020, 14:23

Disregard the neutering question. I saw a similar question posted in another thread and the answer. I'll be waiting until Max is more back to himself and stable. :)

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Newly Diagnosed GSD

Post by Olesia711 » 05 Jun 2020, 19:51

I know the Parvo and Distemper are VERY important..... is there any way you can just do one in a few weeks and hold off on the other for a few weeks later... or do they need to be given together?

Technically, you do not have to worry about giving vaccinations because of EPI ... but my personal thought on this is of course not to wait too long, but if EPI was just diagnosed "if" you can hold off a little bit until the EPI treatment has had a chance to kick in and the dog is at least a little stable, that would be better then giving vaccinations while they are still have lots of loose stools and issues. If your vet doesn't think you should wait, as they DO need these vaccinations...ask if there is anyway you can space them apart a bit.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Newly Diagnosed GSD

Post by jilbert57 » 05 Jun 2020, 21:11

Hi and welcome!
How many cups of food does your dog eat a day? What food are you feeding?
Thanks

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

Barb
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Posts: 918
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Newly Diagnosed GSD

Post by Barb » 05 Jun 2020, 22:34

Hello and welcome! It sounds like you are getting things under control very nicely. It is amazing how good it feels to start helping our pups get balanced.

Yes, the extra peeing is definitely something that some dogs have at the beginning. I will never forget walking into my entryway and thinking there was a leak somewhere because of all the liquid that was all over the floor. Kolby had been trained for a year and had never had an accident in the house. I couldn't believe it. And like you, with everything coming at once, I thought we had another condition on our hands and I was going to lose my sanity. Luckily, it only lasted a few months....actually, he only had a couple of accidents and then we started taking him out more often until it subsided.

You are doing a great job.

Max is lucky to have you!

Barb

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Jean
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Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Newly Diagnosed GSD

Post by Jean » 06 Jun 2020, 08:48

Welcome Amy from the UK

I am so pleased you are on the forum having had some issues logging on which I was glad to help out with

anyway my internet only works sporadically so here we go

we recommend that you feed 50% over and above what the instructions on the bag is for what the weight the dog SHOULD be and over a few meals, all enzymed, if that can fit in with your schedule

I was feeding Kara 5 times a day at the start, she was classed as emaciated by the university here ,she was 39 pounds at 14 months old, and a skeleton , she went up to 90 and maintained until we lost her last May 2019

you will get there , its a bit weird to start with, but it becomes the norm

let us know how the enzymes work out, Diane is very approachable

take care


Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Jean
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Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Newly Diagnosed GSD

Post by Jean » 06 Jun 2020, 08:49

oh wow a whole post !
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Max'sMom
Member
Posts: 8
Country: United States
State: Colorado
Pet name: Max

Re: Newly Diagnosed GSD

Post by Max'sMom » 06 Jun 2020, 11:48

Hi Jill, Jean & Barb!

Thank you for your responses! It's comforting to hear that others have gone through this and have gotten their dogs stabilized and healthy. It's also comforting to hear others thought they had water leaks, but no, the dog peed on the floor!! :lol: :lol: Thanks Jean!!

Jill - We are feeding this food: https://frommfamily.com/products/dog/fo ... eg-recipe/ It was recommended by a friend who is a dog trainer and works with a few different breeders that use it. They all love it. This was introduced to Max while we were trying to figure out what was wrong with him. Based on what I've read here, it looks like the fiber is a little high at 5.5% but I'm going to try to stick with it unless it stops working for him. The instructions say to feed 3 3/4 - 4 1/2 cups for Max's size. Right now I'm feeding him 6 cups. 2 1/2 in the morning and evening and 1 cup at lunch all with enzymes. My vet prescribed 4 tsp. of the enzymes he sold me at each feeding but I've been slowing rolling that back. I have been doing 3 1/2 tsp. and that was working then this morning I used 3tsp. on the 2 1/2 cups of food. (I've been putting 1 tsp. on his 1 cup of food at lunch.) We'll see if that works...

Olesia - On the vaccination reminder the shot was listed as Parvo/Distemper so I don't know if they can be separated. The reminder says the shots just need to be done in June so perhaps if I put it off to more of the end of the month, Max will have gained a bit more weight and be doing better.

Jean - Thank you again for getting me into this forum. It has been a HUGE help to us!!

-Amy

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