New Diagnosis - Please help!

[Rapids77]

For some reason the "pre-enzyme" poop pic didn't want to post. So it now gets its own post.

[Shirl D.]

Hi Andrea,

It's hard when they don't like the enzymes. There are some tricks like feeding in a wide, shallow bowl or pie plate that sometimes helps. Stainless steel bowls don't absorb the smell of the enzymes but ceramic or plastic can. There are a couple other options if he just refuses to eat, but they may not be ideal either. Hang in there...hopefully you'll find something that works for him. In the meantime, by all means, work on your YouTube videos! lol
1. If you are only adding a little topper, it is fine to not have enzymes in the topper itself. The enzymes in the food will work on everything in his digestive system, as long as there are enough enzymes for the total amount of food. The canned food is perfectly fine to add in, especially if it gets him to eat.
2. If you're using the green tripe as a topper, it won't need enzymes. I would add only as much as needed to get him to eat. The raw pancreas would be used instead of powdered enzymes, so I wouldn't used both pancreas and enzymes. The powdered enzymes tend to be easier to dose, but raw pancreas can work well for dogs who don't like enzymes. It has to be handled properly, though, to make sure to preserve the enzymes in it.
3. I have never used raw pancreas or tripe, so I am not the right person to answer this question.
4. Tylan - yes, it's the right stuff...tylosin tartrate, Tylosin soluble powder...all the same! However, 1/2 teaspoon is the recommended dosage for 120 lb dog. Take a look at this page for dosing https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/
45 days is perfect.
5. Yes, you can give it in a "meatball" to hide the taste.
6. If you are adding a significant amount of food as toppers or meatballs for the tylan, then what I would suggest is to put just a tad more enzyme in the food to make sure the ratio of enzyme to food is appropriate for all the food you are giving. As long as there's enough enzyme in the food, the meatballs don't have to have enzymes. Good thing, or it wouldn't work very well, would it?!
7. I'm going to ask Olesia to pop on and respond to this question.

Poop...yes, we consider ourselves Poopologists. That yellow one is classic EPI poop. Lucky for us it was photogenic! LOL! His poop is looking better! Just FYI - some of our EPI dogs are very sensitive to the environment...any stress (good or bad) can affect them. So he could have been a little off today after the visitors because of unauthorized food intake, but also just from having more people in the house. Nothing really to worry about, just be aware of it.

I'm so happy that Blu is feeling and acting better, and no accidents in the house! Wonderful update. Thanks! You are doing a great job!


The other thing to keep in mind is that you want to try to limit the variables when you're feeding him. This reduces the guess work trying to figure out what caused a change that you see. Also, since he may also have IBD, IBS, or food sensitivities, you have another good reason to limit the different foods in the mix.

[Olesia711]

Hi Andrea,

IMHO, i am guessing that the main reason why the vet has Blue on prednisone is because the HGT is low..... but an added benefit of putting a dog on steroids in Blue's condition with the small proximal disease issue (IBS, IBD or some sort of food sensitivity) is that a lot of time steroids will help with this too... kind of like jump start getting everything working properly. So your vet may have Blue on Pred for a couple of reasons. ALSO..... sometimes (even without some sort of food sensitivity) sometimes when a dog's SID/small intestinal dysbiosis is really, really bad sometimes some vets will prescribe a short course of prednisone for that too. But the deal is short term and be sure to slowly with draw a dog from any steroid/prednisone.
What i would do is ask the vet to run another CBC (general blood panel) that will test the HGT next week to see if the HGT is coming up.

Regarding the Tylan, SHirl is correct, technically Blue would be on a lower dose, HOWEVER (and thankfully) Tylosin Tartrate (and yes you have the right stuff, just another brand from Tylan) is very forgiving.... so if you give a little too much that's okay too... the only problem is sometimes enough is not given. SO....maybe before reducing the amount of Tylosin accordingly, maybe give the vet a call and ask if he had a specific reason for giving Blu a wee bit more than normally recommended... The only thing i do caution you is to make sure you continue taking poop pictures, only change one thing at a time ... especially if you do reduce the Tylosin...so you can visually see if you do reduce the Tylosin, if that makes the poos worse... or better..... (ya just never know with these dogs!!!!) You have ALL the tools you need to manage Blu's EPI, the only tricky part now is finding out the right balance of things from one EPI dog to the next... and we are here to help you with that!

[Madelon]

Be sure with the Tylan that after 45 days you slowly wean off - don't quit cold turkey. We've seen some dogs relapse when they stopped giving tylan without slowly weaning off.

[Rapids77]

Hi All - wanted to give you an update on Blu since everyone on this board can essentially be thanked with saving his life.

When we left for vacation on 7/3 Blu weighed about 47lbs. He apparently loved his little vacation from the kids and thrived with all the attention from Grandma. I finally got another weight on him today and he's up to 61 pounds. His coat looks incredible again and he is 100% back to our old dog....is not interested in eating his own poop, wants to play constantly, and is back to starting little spats with his lab brother. Not sure where we'd be without all of you on this forum and the information we found on the site. A huge thank you to all of you!

I'm keeping the current regimen for a while but if you see any suggested things to tweak down the road, please let me know:

Food: Sport Dog Elite (Buffalo and Sweet Potatoe) 6 cups/day (2 morning, 2 noon, 2 evening)
Enzymes: Diane's enzymes 1 tsp per cup of kibble, soaked 35-45 minutes (soaked longer to help with mouth bleeding and so it could penetrate the really dense/hard food)
Tylosan: 1/4 tsp twice per day (am and pm). Will wean him off of this slowly after we hit the 45-day mark
B12: 2 capsules sprinkled over food (1 am and 1 at noon)
Slippery Elm: 1/4 tsp twice per day (mixed with water and poured over food)
Omazrapole: 1 capsule once per day
Poop: Quantity is still up there - usually 5 times per day. The poop typically about 3.5 - 4.0 on the Sport Dog elite and it is very umm..fragrant, on that food. I had a bag of RC Ultamino that I wanted to use so I've been mixing that in with the Sport Dog and his stools are definitely more firm on that food - I'd say a 2.5-3. Everything else has been incredible on the Sport Dog though - coat, attitude, energy, appetite etc. So not sure if I need to look at a permanent switch to RC Ultamino or not? Thoughts on that are always welcome.

All in all though, this is a new dog and boy have I missed him! Thanks again!

Andrea

[Olesia711]

interesting.... that his poo is better when you mix in the Ultamino with the Sport. For now.... i'd continue that.... but when you ahve a chance, try just the Ultamino and observe for about 5 days what the poop is like on just Ultamino. If i had to guess, because his poo is better when you mix in the Ultamino, it make me wonder if he does have a little food sensitivity going on in addition to EPI (this happens often with our dogs) and that might be why his poos look better.

If this is the case, technically i am supposed to say that he needs to be on the Ultamino.... BUT....if you can get his poss to a #2 on a combination of the Ultamino and SPort... talk to your vet and ask him... if a combo would be okay to do long term... or would things eventaully go south and if he really needs to be on just Ultamino (if Ultamino works well also all by it self).

Other than this little conundrum... i have to say, you have done an AMAZING job with Blu as he sound like he is doing fabulous compared to when you first contacted us. So glad to hear that he is back to his ol' playful self!!!!!!!!

Please continue to keep us posted when you have time.,

[Jean]

now this is what we want to hear

My Kara went through so many foods, the rescues did well !

we ended up having her blood tested for intollerances, and she tested positive for chicken,, beef, white fish, and pork, but she could take enzymes !

so we shifted her to lamb, no poultry fats, no grains, no rice

all you want is for them to be happy, and it sounds like you have your boy back, this forum has been instrumental in saving a lot of animals over the 10 years I have been here, and we are proud

Jxxx

[Shirl D.]

Andrea, What wonderful news that Blu is back to his normal self and has gained a good amount of weight! What is his goal weight? It sounds like you have a good plan in place, with some possible tweaks to the food as Olesia mentioned. The only other thing I can add is that when he's at his goal weight, you can start cutting back on the amount of food, because obviously we don't want him to be overweight, either. Many dogs will let you know when it's time, by not finishing their food or by showing less interest in their food, so if you see him start to do that, it may be a sign that he is at a good weight and you can cut back the total amount of food. Congratulations on a job well done, Andrea! Give Blu a big kiss for me!

[Barb]

Wow, Andrea, that is an amazing improvement. It is always hard when our pups don't like the foods, or don't like the enzymes. I had a picky eater in Kolby, and it was so hard to find him a food he liked and that gave him good poos. So I can really appreciate what you have gone through and now has given success.

Blu is lucky to be with you You have really done all the research.

Congratulations.

Barb

[Madelon]

What a great update. I have to share - my boy has been plagued with food sensitivities and the last food we were on changed the formula and we struggled for a year - I recently put him on a mix of Royal Canin Hydrolyzed Adult Food and Sport Dog Food Elite and he's doing better than ever!! Sometimes they just need a weird combo. When I tried 100% of the Royal Canin he had diarrhea. So good for you for figuring out what works best for your pup!! Keep us posted.