German Shepherd EPI and Seizures

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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jsimpson
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Country: United States
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Pet name: Odin
My name: Jessica

German Shepherd EPI and Seizures

Post by jsimpson » 17 Jun 2020, 23:16

Hello,

I have a 2 year old german shepherd that was diagnosed with EPI in January at 18 months old. We have been using pancreatic enzymes since January and he has done fairly well until 5 weeks ago. 5 weeks ago he had a intense seizure that resulted in a emergency vet stay and no reason as to why he is having the seizures. They are treating him for possible meningitis due to a fever that was not letting up after the seizure. For the past 5 weeks he has been on Keppra, Cipro, Enrofloxacin, Prednisone, and omeprazole. I cant help but to think that his seizures and current condition may be due to side effects of EPI. Although his vet was able to quickly diagnose the EPI it seems like it is a tough diagnosis that a lot of vets aren't necessarily experts in. We haven't been recommended B12 for him, but I see a lot of you have your dogs on b12. I have read that low B12 can cause seizures in dogs. Needless to say I am looking for those who may have similar issues. Dogs with EPI and seizures. I am heart broken that out once feisty, ball obssessed, family pet is now a shell of himself. Additionally, for the first 5 months he has taken pancreatic enzymes he had no side effects. As of the last week after he eats with the enzymes his mouth bleeds. Have any of you experienced mouth bleeding after your dog eats? Do you have any recommendations regarding this issue. We brought it up to the vet and said she has neverheard of that happening with enzymes, but that she would look into it. He is getting a teaspoon of enzymes per cup of food. We use Biocase, but now that I have found Diane's I want to try switching it.

Please offer any advise you may have, I just want my dog to be somewhat normal again.

Thank you

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Shirl D.
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Re: German Shepherd EPI and Seizures

Post by Shirl D. » 18 Jun 2020, 15:34

Hi,

I'm so sorry your German shepherd is having these issues! I have never dealt with seizures in my dogs, but I imagine they are very scary. I don't know of any connection between EPI and seizures. Unfortunately, EPI dogs can have any other medical conditions along with EPI, and seizures is one of them. There is a page on the website with some concurrent conditions, and seizures is one of those conditions. I think the information on there is general information about seizures, but you might get some good information from that page. Here is a link: https://epi4dogs.com/seizures/

As for the mouth sores, the enzymes can be caustic and cause mouth sores. Some dogs very sensitive to them and other dogs are not bothered by them at all. We recommend that you mix the enzymes with a little lukewarm water, then mix them into the food well so the enzymes get distributed well. Then wait at least 20 minutes. This reduces the chance of mouth sores. Since he's already got some soreness, you might want to wait even a little longer (especially if you already wait 20 minutes), and then encourage him to drink after he eats. Some people wash their dogs mouth out with a squirt of water from a water bottle, or by giving them an ice cube after meals. Other people use a wet cloth to wipe around their lips if their dogs are very sensitive. I can't explain the coincidental timing of just starting to get mouth sores now, but hopefully some of these suggestions will help alleviate the sores.

B12 is vital to EPI dogs, and is low in most EPI dogs. The test for B12 (cobalamin) is often run at the same time as the TLI test for EPI, so it may have been checked when he was diagnosed. What often happens is that the B12 is in the normal range (which would explain why supplementing wasn't recommended by the vet), but it's on the low side of normal. EPI dogs tend to need their B12 to be in the upper range of normal (above 600) in order to thrive. B12 can plummet quickly with our dogs, too, so it could be considerably lower now than it was at diagnosis. I would definitely look into this. Since you said there can be a connection between B12 and seizures, if you can, try to get his B12 tested, or at least talk to your vet about this connection. Supplementing B12 in our dogs is easy with the right products, either injections from the vet or pills that have the intrinsic factor in it. But since it might be linked to his seizures, I would urge you to talk to your vet about it before starting to supplement. It may be very important to get an accurate current B12 level.

Good luck!

Barb
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Country: United States
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Re: German Shepherd EPI and Seizures

Post by Barb » 19 Jun 2020, 22:52

I am so sorry your pup is having these issues. I have dealt with seizures in one of my German Shepherds and EPI in another, but neither of them had both. One of my children (an adult now) also has a seizure disorder, but it is well controlled. I know how scary seizures can be, especially ones like the one that you described.

Do you know if they did a B12 level when they tested him for EPI? It would be under cobalamin. It would definitely be something to look into.
But I am more concerned about the fever that they could not reduce and what was causing that. High fevers or spiking fevers can cause seizures. You said that they are treating him for meningitis? Are there other symptoms of meningitis present ? Depending on whether the meningitis is caused by a bacterial infection or whether it is viral will determine the treatment. It zaps the dog's energy, too and takes several weeks for recovery. I do not think it is related to EPI. A seizure disorder often has no known cause, but in your pup's case, if it is caused by meningitis, which has to do with an inflammation in the brain then they will take a specific course of action.

Mouth sores can occur at times during treatment. Our German Shepherd, Kolby, had mouth sores at the beginning. We increased the amount of water that we added to the food/enzyme mixture so that the enzymes wouldn't be as caustic in his mouth. After a while he was able to have less water with the enzymes and they didn't bother him. The other suggestions of rinsing his mouth and using a squirt bottle after eating are good suggestions. We also let the enzymes incubate longer than the 20 minutes most people use. At one point we were letting the mixture sit for 45 minutes and that seemed to help.

I know how worried you must be for your pup. I hope they can come to a correct diagnosis so he can have the proper treatment. It is hard to be patient while you are waiting, I know.but sometimes things turn out better than we think they will. When our Bridge German Shepherd was diagnosed, the vet said they would treat his seizures with medication since there was no obvious cause, but he said that often the meds have to be increased over time and eventually are not therapeutic and won't control the seizures. Kip was diagnosed when he was 5, he lived to be 13 and we never had to increase his meds.

Please let us know how he is doing.

Hang in there.

Barb

Molly
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Country: United States
State: New Hampshire
Pet name: Connor
My name: Molly

Re: German Shepherd EPI and Seizures

Post by Molly » 20 Jun 2020, 07:21

I’m very new to this as well, but I’ve experienced some “strange” things happening after the EPI diagnosis. Our boy’s was all skin related. When he was first diagnosed he had a temp of 104°. After 4 days it started to trend down. They had tested him for pancreatitis during this time and the test at the vet came back negative, even though all his symptoms pointed to that. (Sensitivity in the abdomen during exam, etc.) Because everything was coming back negative and his temp was trending down they sent him home. I asked for the EPI test to be done the following Wednesday. He never really regained his strength over the weekend and when he went in for the EPI test his temp was 106°. He had pancreatitis, but the local vet’s tests weren’t sensitive enough to detect it in an EPI dog. The seizure could be caused by having such a high and uncontrollable temp in your dog. We live in a rural town, so I had to really push for our dog and advocated for additional testing. I think this was the first EPI test that was ever done from this vet.

As far as the bleeding from the mouth...I’ve read that it could be from not letting the enzymes sit long enough or in enough water. But, there are some Facebook support groups and some people say that even with a lot of water and waiting an hour or more that some dogs still experience it. Some people have recommended wiping the dog’s mouth with a damp cloth after they eat. Other people fill a shallow bowl with water and cut up tiny pieces of hot dog and drop it in there. That way they kind of rinse their mouth out themselves.

Either way, these are all just my experiences or things I’ve read. I would always do your own research and run everything by your vet. Also, if you have the means and access, maybe finding a vet that is more knowledgeable about EPI. Good luck with everything. I really hope things start to turn around quickly.

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Olesia711
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Re: German Shepherd EPI and Seizures

Post by Olesia711 » 20 Jun 2020, 21:29

Molly,

Thank you for your input.... i have not thought of possible fever, which can and does happen sometimes with pancreatitis (in which end stage chronic pancreatitis can segue into secondary EPI) , and that in turn, if excessive, may cause a seizure. Definitely food for thought.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Jean
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Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
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Re: German Shepherd EPI and Seizures

Post by Jean » 22 Jun 2020, 05:02

nice ideas Molly

a floating ball would also work, and the dog can then duck for it , we never had these issues as the enzymes from the UK dont cause problems

a flat glass pie plate dish is good, less space for the muzzle to get into

The whole point of the forum is to share ideas

BRING IT ON



Jeanx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Madelon
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Re: German Shepherd EPI and Seizures

Post by Madelon » 22 Jun 2020, 13:20

Hi Jessica. I'm so sorry your GSD isn't doing well. It's definitely heart breaking seeing them not acting like theirselves. As far as the seizure - have you recently given any flea/tick/heartworm meds or vaccines? There have been instances of seizures with some of these medications. I'm jumping on the B12 bandwagon - when my GSD was diagnosed our vet at the time did not think he needed supplementing it was 406, but I knew from the research here that he needed it so I went ahead and ordered the WonderLabs Pet Factor B12 pills and started giving them to him. I made sure to tell my vet what I was doing and he said it was fine since there were no other medical issues where too much B12 would be a problem. My vet now recommends B12 with EPI patients :).
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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