Amount of Enzymes

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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TsBs
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Pet name: Katniss Everdeen
My name: Tara

Re: Amount of Enzymes

Post by TsBs » 02 Jul 2020, 22:43

I am very happy to know that we are at least on the right track with the B12 injections...and over the moon to learn the proper way to wean off the Tylan. I don't suspect my Vet knows that as it was never mentioned.

Thank you all so much for your responses.
Each time I log on to read them and other information on the site, I feel like I might be actually be able to get on top of this disease and help get Katniss feeling better and thriving again.

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Jean
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Re: Amount of Enzymes

Post by Jean » 03 Jul 2020, 05:44

What a fabulous name, one of mine was Kai Sun of Light

anyway you are getting there

I could never stop Tylan, she was on an amount almost invisible but it had to be there

keep your diary

Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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TsBs
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Re:Coconut oil

Post by TsBs » 04 Jul 2020, 09:55

Quick Question to all ye Sages of EPI :)

The Extra Virgin Cold pressed coconut oil that is recommended for weigh gain ... is that the one that is liquid or the one that is sort of butter like substance? .... if it is the butter like one do you heat it up a little to become liquid to put on he food?

We were in to weigh Katniss yesterday and she has lost another 3/4 of a pound this month.
She is 21.6kg. / 47lbs. now. :(

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jilbert57
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Re: Amount of Enzymes

Post by jilbert57 » 05 Jul 2020, 09:13

Good morning. We usually do not recommend giving extras to the pups until they are stable and good consistency is seen in poops.
How much food are you feeding? I would add another enzymed meal if possible during the day if you are home or in the evening.
Unless someone has said to start coconut oil now, in lieu I would add an extra meal.

PS: I see you already feed 3 meals. Maybe add a snack before bed.
In answer to your question it is the one like butter.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Olesia711
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Re: Amount of Enzymes

Post by Olesia711 » 05 Jul 2020, 10:43

Hi Tara,

You have been given great advice and your questions have all been answered, so i would just like to say that you and your vet are taking real good care of your pup!!!!

With regards to weening of Tylan..... some vets agree with this, some don't think it is necessary.... however, after running this forum for over 12 years with thousands of EPI dogs, we can honestly say, however only anecdotally, that slowly withdrawing from Tylan (for whatever reason) appears to work better with many (although not all) EPI dogs. how we suggest to do this is as follows:

After the 45th day of giving Tylan (Tylosin Tartrate) then:
Give 1/2 dose breakfast and dinner for another 5-7 days.
Then the next 5-7 days give the 1/2 dose breakfast and dinner every other day.
Then the next 5-7 days give 1/2 dose once every other day.... and then stop.

This technique often helps with those dogs that have trouble getting off Tylan/Tylosin Tartrate.

Next, i did notice your dog's B12 is super low. Once you bring the B12 levels up (i personally highly recommend re-testing the B12 levels later) What you want to make sure is for you and your vet to ascertain how much and how often B12 supplementation will be needed going forward (whether shots of Pet Factor B12 pills https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688 ) to keep your dog's B12 level at a good level. With a chronic illness like EPI, B12 will need to be maintained life long.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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TsBs
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Pet name: Katniss Everdeen
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Re: Amount of Enzymes

Post by TsBs » 05 Jul 2020, 20:38

Ok ... I will hang off on the coconut oil and try a little more food.

Is it reasonable to go higher then 150% of the suggested amount?
That is where she is at right now.... or should I just break that down to 4 meals a day instead of 3?

I will get the Tylosin sorted out with the Vet.
She was going to call me this week....which I am sure will happen sooner then later once she gets the info that Katniss has continued to lose weight.

Thanks once again for all the info and all the patience you have with the questions :)

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Madelon
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Re: Amount of Enzymes

Post by Madelon » 05 Jul 2020, 21:42

Hi there. I would not go above 150% of the food - keep it at 150% of the food for the weight your dog should be but in smaller more frequent meals - I personally don't recommend feeding more than two cups at a time. The hardest part of EPI is patience but remember it takes time for their bodies to heal from the inside. It can take some dogs weeks, months, even a year to gain back the weight. As long as your dog is no longer losing weight you are headed in the right direction.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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Olesia711
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Re: Amount of Enzymes

Post by Olesia711 » 05 Jul 2020, 23:56

If your schedule allows, breaking down the feeding into 4 meals a days would be wonderful. I did that and it greatly helped my pup. And the good thing is, that once they gain back most or all of their weight, and they become stable, you can go back to feeding twice a day...........
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Jean
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Re: Amount of Enzymes

Post by Jean » 06 Jul 2020, 08:59

personally, I would keep it simple

we did 5 meals a day, and a small scrambled eggs, and potato before bed, enzymed of course

My Kara took a year to gain significant weight, the nutrition goes first to the organs and the brain, the body seems to have to wait, and then there is a massive shed, so dont worry if there is hair everywhere, including your knickers!

just get a furmentor

similar to this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/FURminator-Gro ... ooghydr-21

the wider the combs are the better the very close ones dont work on big double coats

dont get hung up just enjoy the day


Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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TsBs
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Posts: 11
Country: Canada
Pet name: Katniss Everdeen
My name: Tara

Re: Amount of Enzymes

Post by TsBs » 10 Jul 2020, 13:09

I think we have things sorted out now ... at least for this 1st part of the journey.

We have enough Tylosin for the course of 45 days and then the described weaning period.
We are doing 4 smaller meals a day (our other dog Tazza is in heaven since we are doing the same for her!)

There hasn't been anymore night time leaks :)
Her next weigh in at the Vet is on the 17th.... here's hoping for at least a few grams!

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