CREON 10000BPU

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Jean
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Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: CREON 10000BPU

Post by Jean » 03 Jul 2020, 05:12

the happy dance is fab, my vet did a dance when Kara put weight on and huge hugs !

trully, I thought we were losing her, but Uncle Ian the vet, no relation, said "you are not losing her on my watch" and then gave me a withering look from his 6ft 6 inches height, and I knew I had hope

so fingers crossed
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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AnnieWood
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Posts: 25
Location: Perth
Country: Australia
Pet name: Holly
My name: Annie

Re: CREON 10000BPU

Post by AnnieWood » 03 Jul 2020, 07:29

That is a great story Jean :D

Wish I had an Uncle Ian... he sounds amazing.
Dog mum to English Staffy Winston 3 (born with hereditary cataracts) and Maltese Shih Tzu Daisy 2 (so far healthy but a slight underbite) looks super cute :D

Our beautiful boy staffy x jack russell Arnie 2006-2017. Believe he had EPI and we watched him waste away. Tried everything to save him. English x American Staffy Holly 2008 -2020.

Will spread the word about EPI and SIBO and help another dogs live a long healthy life.

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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Re: CREON 10000BPU

Post by Olesia711 » 03 Jul 2020, 13:39

another AHHhhhh comment.... that lip smacking = upset tummy. You have now described multiple displays of possible SID.... i really think you need to address this first and foremost as it "might" be the underlying issue..... along with possible low B12.... was the B12 checked????? That can also contribute to fussy inappetence along with SID... and SID is knows to also bring down B12 levels...... so just wanted to mention this also.

1. Try the SLippery Elm FIRST... give it a day or two with every meal... (the right type and right amount of fiber is what helps SID get under better control)
2. THEN... afterwards, try a probiotic... but make sure the probiotic has a prebiotic in it.... AND (very important) do not give the probiotic full-strength as recommended, but in stead start with half a dose and work up to a full dose over the course of a week... Cause sometimes the probiotics themselves cause loose stools initially ...
3. I suspect your vet will not be able to get Tylan even with a prescription (but do try!) but if not.... ask your vet to check into: VET ONE "Tylosin Soluble Powder" https://www.medi-vet.com/VetOne-Tylosin ... 19172.htm
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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AnnieWood
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Posts: 25
Location: Perth
Country: Australia
Pet name: Holly
My name: Annie

Re: CREON 10000BPU

Post by AnnieWood » 03 Jul 2020, 16:03

Thanks Olesia

I think I will ask the vet to email me the blood results so I can give it to my Vet I am seeing on Thursday. The vet didn’t mention low B12 but mentioned low protein and high liver enzymes.

I got a good probiotics today. I did give her the full amount in her lunch. As she has her antibiotics in the morning and night. Was told to give them separately too not avoid interfering with the antibiotics. Her poop has firmed up more. Looks like a cow pat now instead of just liquid. But still is doing some lip smacking and stomach noises... especially tonight.

I was told when I went to get the slippery elm that I need to finish her antibiotics first. They said the slippery elm is to prevent the bacteria coming back. Using it now might trap the bacteria into the lining. Not sure if this is true. So could you confirm this and I will get some tomorrow if it’s fine to take now.

Also you have to give it 2 hours before or after medication/supplements. She is currently taking her antibiotics with her breakfast and dinner and probiotics at lunch. Would it be ok to give 2 hours after she has eaten or would you recommend before?

Would it also be ok to give a small amount of cream cheese without the creon to hide the slippery elm in. Holly doesn’t like taking any medication/supplement without it being hidden in food. She has the strongest lock jaw. Even if I get my husband to hold her and try to push it down her throat she finds away to throw it up. Would you recommend power or capsules? I know capsules would be easier.

This is where I found the tylosin. So it looks it is available in Australia.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/petchem ... sules.html

So maybe my vet might get it in for me.

There is so much to think about. So overwhelming but thank you so much for your help. :D
Dog mum to English Staffy Winston 3 (born with hereditary cataracts) and Maltese Shih Tzu Daisy 2 (so far healthy but a slight underbite) looks super cute :D

Our beautiful boy staffy x jack russell Arnie 2006-2017. Believe he had EPI and we watched him waste away. Tried everything to save him. English x American Staffy Holly 2008 -2020.

Will spread the word about EPI and SIBO and help another dogs live a long healthy life.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: CREON 10000BPU

Post by Olesia711 » 03 Jul 2020, 17:58

Hi Annie ... i am going to respond to our questions by cutting and pasting your inquiries and responding in CAPS:

1. I got a good probiotics today. I did give her the full amount in her lunch. As she has her antibiotics in the morning and night. Was told to give them separately too not avoid interfering with the antibiotics. Her poop has firmed up more. Looks like a cow pat now instead of just liquid. But still is doing some lip smacking and stomach noises... especially tonight. TECHINICALLY YES! ALWAYS GIVE PROBIOTICS APPROX 2 HOURS AWAY FROM ANTIBIOTICS. HOWEVER THIS BEING SAID, WHEN YOU GIVE THE TYLOSIN TARTRATE....SINCE THE TYLOSIN DOES NOT KILL ALL THE BACTERIA (LIKE METRONIDAZOLE AND MOST OTHER ANTIBIOTICS) YOU CAN ACTUALLY GIVE PROBIOTICS AND TYLOSIN AT THE SAME TIME.... OR IF YOU ARE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH GIVING TYLOSIN SEPARATE FROM THE PROBIOTICS, THAT IS OKAY TOO.
NEXT PROBITOIC DOSE- -TRY GIVING ONLY 1/2 A DOSE... GIVE HER SYSTEM TIME TO GET ACCLIMATED TO IT.
ALSO.... YOU WILL NOT SEE IMMEDIATE RESULTS, IT WILL TAKE A WHILE. HOW MUCH OF A WHILE DEPENDS ON THE INDIVIDUAL DOG.



2. I was told when I went to get the slippery elm that I need to finish her antibiotics first. They said the slippery elm is to prevent the bacteria coming back. Using it now might trap the bacteria into the lining. Not sure if this is true. So could you confirm this and I will get some tomorrow if it’s fine to take now.
NOT TRUE.... OR AT LEAST NOT THE WAY THEY EXPLAINED IT.....THE SITUATION IS THAT WHEN GIVING SLIPPERY ELM WITH ANTIBIOTICS... IT MAY INHIBIT THE FULL EFFECTIVENESS OF THE ANTIBIOTIC BECAUSE THE SLIPPERY ELM IS A MUCILAGE (IT COATS THE DIGESTIVE TRAC) SO YES, IT MAY INHIBIT THE FULL EFFICACY OF THE ANTIBIOTIC, BUT QUITE HNESTLY NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE WITH THIS SITUATION. HOWEVER, THAT BEING SAID, IF YOU HAVE A DOG THAT IS BEING TREATED WITH CANCER DRUGS OR SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE A HIGHLY ACCURATE DOSE, I WOULD NOT GIVE THE SLIPPERY ELM AT THE SAME TIME, BUT RATHER WAIT A FEW HOURS (SAME LIKE PROBTIOTICS AND ANTIBIOTICS... WAIT 2 HOURS).
IF WE ALL WAITED UNTIL WE WERE DONE WITH ANTIBIOTICS, SOME OF OUR EPI DOGS WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO TAKE SLIPPERY ELM AS SOME ARE ON SOMETHING LIKE TYLOSIN FOR LIFE. (AT A REDUCED DOSE). THIS IS WHERE COMMON SENSE PREVAILS.
......WE HAVE ACTUALLY HAD SOME RESEARCH DONE ON SLIPPERY ELM AND THE RESEARCHERS "THINK" THAT WHAT MIGHT BE GOING ON IS THAT THE SLIPPERY ELM MUCILAGE HELPS PREVENT BAD METABOLITES FROM GETTING THRU TRIGGERING MORE SID...



3. Also you have to give it 2 hours before or after medication/supplements. She is currently taking her antibiotics with her breakfast and dinner and probiotics at lunch. Would it be ok to give 2 hours after she has eaten or would you recommend before? I ALWAYS SUGGEST GIVING IT AFTER THEY HAVE EATEN UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED. SOME ANTIBIOTICS WILL MAKE SOME DOG QUEASY WITHOUT FOOD..... BUT.... SOMETIMES (AND IT WILL BE LISTED ON THE BOTTLE OF MEDS) IT IS NECESSARY TO GIVE BEFORE A MEAL.



4. Would it also be ok to give a small amount of cream cheese without the creon to hide the slippery elm in. THAT IS WHAT I ALWAYS DO... CREAM CHEESE IS A GREAT "CAMOUFLAGER" TO GIVE DRUGS IN! BUT THEN AGAIN, I ALWAYS GAVE SLIPPERY ELM IN CREAM CHEESE THE SAME TIME AS I GAVE FOOD WITH THE ENZYMES AND IF THRE WERE ANTIBIOTICS INVOLVED I GAVE THEM ALSO AT THE SAME TIME BECAUSE WITH JUST EPI (OR LIKE MY DOG WHO HAD EPI, DIABETES, AND IMHA) I KNEW ALL THE ANTIBIOTICS I GAVE WERE NOT CRUCIAL TO BE 100% ABSOLUTE ACCURATE DOSE...... WHERE AS MY OTHER DOG WHO HAD CUSHINGS DISEASE WAS ON A HIGHLY REGULATED DOSE WITH HIS DRUGS FOR THE CUSHINGS AND IN HIS CASE I NEVER GAVE SLIPPERY ELM WHEN I GAVE HIM HIS CUSHING MEDS...... I AM SORRY THERE IS NOT A SIMPLE CUT AND DRY ANSWER, BUT YOU KIND OF HAVE TO LOOK AT THE INDIVIDUAL SITUATION. IF YOU STILL FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE GIVING THE SLIPPERY ELM AWAY FROM THE ANTIBIOTICS....THEN OPEN UP A CAPSULE OF CREON AND JUST STICK A FEW PELLETS ONTO THE CREAM CHEESE BEFORE YOU GIVE IT TO YOUR DOG WITH THE SLIPPERY ELM HID INSIDE OF THE CREAM CHEESE :)


5. This is where I found the tylosin . THATS THE RIGHT STUFF :) HOPE YOUR VET CAN GET IT. I KNOW YOUR DOG IS ON METRONIDAZOLE, UNFORTUNATELY THAT DOES NOT ALWAYS WORK WITH SID IN DOGS WITH EPI ... BUT SOMETIMES THAT IS ALL THAT IS AVAIALBE.....SO YOUR VET DID THE CORRECT THING, AS IT IS WORTH TRYING TO SEE IF YOUR DOG IS ONE OF THE LUCKY ONES, BUT IF THE POOP DOESN'T REALLY IMPROVE AFTER 7 TO 10 DAYS, THEN YOU NEED TO ASK FOR A DIFFERENT ANTI, AND HOPEFULLY YOU CAN GET TYLOSIN TARTRATE.


6. MOST OF US WERE OVER-WHELMED WHEN OUR DOGS WERE FIRST DIAGNOSED.... BUT IN TIME, MANAGING EPI WILL SEEM LIKE NO BIG DEAL AT ALL...ONCE YOU LEARN ALL THE EPI QUIRKS WITH YOUR SPECIA/INDIVIDUAL EPI DOG. MY GAL WAS DIAGNOSED AT 1+1/2 YRS OLD AND SHE JUST PASSED AWAY AT 15 YEARS OLD THIS FEBRUARY. WHEN THEY FINALLY FIGURED OUT WHAT WAS WRONG WITH HER, MY VET SAID SHE WOULD NOT HAVE LASTED ANOTHER MONTH.... IT TOOK HER 3 MONTHS TO STABLIZE AND FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE, NO ONE WOULD HAVE EVER GUESSED SHE HAD A LIFELONG CHRONIC ILLNESS. SHE WAS THE MOST HAPPIEST, VIBRANT DOG EVER...... JUST SHARING TO LET YOU KNOW THE BEGINNING CAN BE TOUGH AND DRAINING, BUT ONCE YOU FIND THE RIGHT BALANCE, IT IS NOT SO BAD AFTER ALL AND THE DOGS REALLY DO BOUNCE BACK .
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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AnnieWood
Member
Posts: 25
Location: Perth
Country: Australia
Pet name: Holly
My name: Annie

Re: CREON 10000BPU

Post by AnnieWood » 03 Jul 2020, 21:03

Thanks for answering all my questions. Very much appreciated.

Holly’s poop was even better today. So happy I found this forum.
Dog mum to English Staffy Winston 3 (born with hereditary cataracts) and Maltese Shih Tzu Daisy 2 (so far healthy but a slight underbite) looks super cute :D

Our beautiful boy staffy x jack russell Arnie 2006-2017. Believe he had EPI and we watched him waste away. Tried everything to save him. English x American Staffy Holly 2008 -2020.

Will spread the word about EPI and SIBO and help another dogs live a long healthy life.

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: CREON 10000BPU

Post by Olesia711 » 03 Jul 2020, 23:03

glad to hear Holly's poop is better today..... if her poos keep on improving, you may not have to change the Metronidazole to Tylosin Tartrate / Tylan.... only if the Metro doesn't seem to be working......but if they don't keep on improving, then please do ask the vet to see if he/she can get that Tylosin Tatrat200 mg pills you found.

keep us posted!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Ruby
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Posts: 99
Country: United States
State: Florida

Re: CREON 10000BPU

Post by Ruby » 04 Jul 2020, 00:48

Hi, I have been giving my dog creon 10,000 for years. She is now a little over 10 years old. I just put two hold it real quick under cold water and place my hand out to her and she takes them right up. I give these to here just before I feed her. Works all the time. The food I feed her is Earthborn "Great Plaines" They use bison in the food. She loves it and I also place her B12 with intrinsic factor in her plate under some of her food.( I get it over the net from Wonderlab).. She gets one with each meal (2 meals a day).

Hope this help you.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: CREON 10000BPU

Post by Olesia711 » 04 Jul 2020, 08:46

Hi Annie,

It just dawned on me.... i read somewhere (and i think it may have been in one of your posts)..... that you (or someone) is giving a tsp of apple cider vinegar ???????

If so, PLEASE stop as vinegar can destroy pancreatic enzymes..... i forgot how by how much, but best to not use any amount of any vinegar when giving enzymes.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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AnnieWood
Member
Posts: 25
Location: Perth
Country: Australia
Pet name: Holly
My name: Annie

Re: CREON 10000BPU

Post by AnnieWood » 04 Jul 2020, 09:20

Thanks Olesia

Here I am thinking it’s helping with her digestion but it makes it worse. Will stop immediately.

My plan is to definitely change antibiotics to tylosin as soon as I see the vet on Thursday.
Dog mum to English Staffy Winston 3 (born with hereditary cataracts) and Maltese Shih Tzu Daisy 2 (so far healthy but a slight underbite) looks super cute :D

Our beautiful boy staffy x jack russell Arnie 2006-2017. Believe he had EPI and we watched him waste away. Tried everything to save him. English x American Staffy Holly 2008 -2020.

Will spread the word about EPI and SIBO and help another dogs live a long healthy life.

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