New to EPI

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Mandalong22
Member
Posts: 15
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Nati
My name: Amanda

Re: New to EPI

Post by Mandalong22 » 09 Jul 2020, 19:16

Nati has been using 1/2 of slippery elm per meal for two days now. Her poop before slippery elm was brown and I could pick It up easy. Now it is a weird yellow whitish green color and it’s very soft. Think she is having a reaction to slippery elm.also she is finally out of her royal canine gastrointestinal low fat. I bought her some victor professional formula and was thinking about switching her. Anyone tried that food? Also has anyone’s dog had a bad reaction to slippery elm. Felt like we were making progress until she started that. Also what enzymes do you use. My pup is on pancrezyme and it’s $187 a bottle and last a little over 2 weeks

Also found out her levels:
B12 265pg/ml
Folate >24ng/ml
TLI 1.1 ug/L

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New to EPI

Post by Olesia711 » 09 Jul 2020, 23:17

Hi Amanda, i just replied to your post elsewhere..... i'l copy and paste it here.

By the way, thank you for the test results...... Definite EPI, SID is out of control, and the B12 is low and needs to be supplemented
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New to EPI

Post by Olesia711 » 09 Jul 2020, 23:19

Hi again, Amanda, here is the post that i did, responding to you on another thread:

Hi Amanda and yes, not every dog responds positively to the SLippery ELm..... for some it will trigger loose stools in which case you need to stop it.

The fact that you are now seeing "yellow whitish green color and it’s very soft." poo in Nati's stools......, i would stop the SLippery Elm (for now) although that being said, usually green/yellowish poo is a sign of too quick of a transit time, and either corrects itself with something like SLippery Elm, pre+probiotics or antibiotics.... so i am not 100% sure that this is caused from the Slippery Elm... it could be SID and that the SLippery ELm is not addressing it, cause usually an adverse reaction to SLippery Elm is just loose stools. The fact that Nati was on the Metro for 8 days may very well be why the stools started looking good, but if it was stopped after 8 days, THAT might be why you are seeing the yellowish/green stools.... my guess (but i could be wrong) is that it is not the slippery Elm but rather SID that has not yet gotten under real good control before the antibiotic was stopped.

But just to err on the side of caution, stop the slippery elm (for now) ... to see if that corrects the issue. If not, then you will need to try an address it at which point, you can either try some other pre+probiotics ... or..... ask the vet if you can try Tylosin Tartrate antibiotic. ( i personally would opt for the Tylosin Tartrate antibiotic except for the fact that it sounds like you were seeing a positive results from the Metro, but it may have been stopped too soon.).

P.S. After seeing the test results on this thread, i now strongly suspect that those funky poos are not from the SLippery Elm, but rather because the Metronidazole was stopped to soon.....................
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New to EPI

Post by Olesia711 » 09 Jul 2020, 23:21

... and i also posted another post..... in response to your food question:

Oh... the Victor food (purple bag, yes?) may (or may not) work well... the fiber content is good BUT..... the 2nd and 3rd ingredient is grain:
Beef Meal, Grain Sorghum, Whole Grain Millet, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Blood Meal, Chicken Meal, Pork M ... but it does have a lot of decent other ingredients in it..... so the best i can say is to try it and see what happens.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Mandalong22
Member
Posts: 15
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Nati
My name: Amanda

Re: New to EPI

Post by Mandalong22 » 10 Jul 2020, 04:42

Thank hour so much for your response. I more question. What enzymes did you use? She is on pancrezyme and I am spending $187 every 2.5 weeks

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: New to EPI

Post by Jean » 10 Jul 2020, 05:41

Hi there

you have had as usual, brilliant advice from Olesia

have a look at Enzyme Diane

https://enzymediane.com/

she does discounted enzymes,And is widely used throughout the EPI world in US

Chicken and poultry fat never worked for my Kara, as didnt grain or rice, they dont for some reason, tollerate it

Try to get grain free and no chicken or its derivitives, and low fibre, say 3% ish

Kara never got on with Slippery Elm but its widely used with success, we had to use Ranitidine for her tummy issues and Tylosin for life

let us know


Jeanxxx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New to EPI

Post by Olesia711 » 10 Jul 2020, 08:19

i too was started with Pancrezyme... very good products, but OMG.... expensive! As are all brand name enzymes.... so i switched to Enzyme Diane (6x), after 1 month on Pancrezyme (cause we just couldn't afford the more expensive product for a life long condition). My gal was on EnzymeDiane's 6x for 13.5 years and did fantastic. She just recently passed at 15 years old. Diane's product is not only great, saves you approx 2/3 of what you pay for a brand name product, but the customer service exceeds all others.

https://enzymediane.com/
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Barb
Staff
Posts: 918
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: New to EPI

Post by Barb » 10 Jul 2020, 14:25

Hello Amanda and welcome!

We all know how you are feeling because we have all been there. Getting that diagnosis is a shock. I had never heard of EPI before my vet said he hoped Kolby didn't have that "German Shepherd Enzyme disease"......but he said we shouldn't go there for a while. So, of course, I "went there" and researched it, only to discover that Kolby had almost all of the symptoms of EPI. We confirmed it with the test and fortunately, I found this wonderful group....then, as they say, the rest is history. Kolby shared love and laughter with us for 11 years until this past January, when he developed a fast-moving cancer. His light is still with us.

Once you get the food, enzymes, antibiotics and B12 in balance the EPI will become very manageable. It sounds like a lot, but it will become part of your daily routine. The hardest part is this beginning stage. As others have mentioned keeping a log/journal of everything you give Nati each day and the resulting poos will help you to know what is working and what needs to be adjusted.

Please ask any questions that you have.....and hang in there. You are doing great.

Barb

Mandalong22
Member
Posts: 15
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Nati
My name: Amanda

Re: New to EPI

Post by Mandalong22 » 12 Jul 2020, 07:47

Great news! I decided to keep using the slippery elm and that night her poops improved. They are firm and brown! I did switch her food to the Victors pro premium- purplish pink bag. She is doing great. Also switching to enzyme Diane.

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Madelon
Staff
Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: New to EPI

Post by Madelon » 12 Jul 2020, 11:35

WAHOOO!! Glad things are going well. Remember to keep your detailed journal :)
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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