Poops & Mouth Sores - oh boy!

[jaegerNmom]

My 6 year old Jaeger (85lbs) has been on enzymes for about 6 weeks now, and his poops are amazing! Maybe too amazing? He is routinely a 2 on the poop scale, with some 1's mixed in. He seems to have trouble passing, and seems to need to strain to get it out. I've been slowing dialing his dose down, but so far haven't seen a change in the outcome. Is this a sign of too much of the enzymes?

The other question I have is in regards to mouth sores...I have seen them mentioned as a potential side effect of using the enzymes. What do these look like? Since starting the enzymes, I have noticed some irritation just under the corner of his mouth on his jowels. He gets sort of a green/brown sludge there when he eats, so I clean him up with a grooming wipe after every meal, but there's routinely a small amount of blood, and the hair right at the lip line seems to be coming out when I wipe his mouth, so that is looking sad and patchy. I don't see any actual "sores" just general inflammation and some redness. Might be unrelated, but thought I would ask? It also seems that the enzymes or food combination he's getting makes his eyes water? Has anyone else seen this? Lots of tear production during/immediately following meal time?

He gets fed twice a day - each meal is:

2 cups Elite Sport Dog Buffalo/Sweet Potato
2 tsp Enzyme Diane 6X
1/2 can Blue Buffalo Red Meat Dinner (grain and chicken free)
3/4 tsp Wonderlabs Slippery Elm
1 Wonderlabs B-12 tablet
1 Proviable Probiotics (Breakfast only)

[Olesia711]

Hmmm.... i was jsut about to say yes, that sounds like he might be extra sensitive to the enzymes and yes that does sound like possible mouth sores (iirritation) from the enzymes... until i read where his eyes water.... I honestly have not heard that yet in relation to the enzymes, BUT... i have also learned never to say never and that jsut might be possible!.

SOOOOOooo.... i would do one of the following suggestions and see if it helps:
1. add a wee bit more liquid to the food to moisten the food and enzymes.
2. let the food and enzymes incubate anywhere between 10 and 15 more minutes.
3. Reduce the amount of enzymes by 1/8 tsp... watch the poos for 3 to 5 days. if poo remains the same, try reducing by another 1/8 of a tsp and repeat observation . You can do this until you notice the poos going south again... then go back to the dose of enzymes that worked.

Regarding the poo, #2 are PERFECT, the straining and sometimes #1, i personally don't worry about, but if it concerns you, try (at a different time for the enzyme trails mentioned above) eliminating the SLippery ELm.... if that doesn't help, then add the Slippery Elm back and increase the Slippery Elm by 1/8 tsp and see what that does.
SLippery Elm is good for loose stools AND for constipation.... but you ahve to play around with the dose........hence my wierd instructions above.
Hope this gives you some ideas to try.

Please keep us posted.

[Madelon]

Hi and welcome to our EPI family. Olesia's given excellent advice as always. I just wanted to add that you can also toss some kibbles into the water bowl at feeding for him to "bob" for thus rinsing his mouth of enzymes and food. With regard to the eyes, have you ever noticed this before? Not sure how long you've had your pup but wondering if it could be allergies - environmental? My boy has watery eyes/goupy eyes spring through fall off and on but I haven't noticed redness so you might want to discuss that with your vet. Keep us posted.

[Olesia711]

hey Madelon, "Bobbing for Kibble"... what a great suggestion to get extra-sensitive dogs to rinse their mouth ! thanks!

[Jean]

although we never needed to do this Kara loved "bobbing for a ball" that might work

[jaegerNmom]

Thanks all for your great advice....to make sure I understand-

For the Mouth Sores/Irritation:
Add more water to the enzyme/food mix to make it even soupier and wait an additional 10-15 more minutes than I have been? Have been doing ~20 minutes so far. Then throw a few kibble into the water bowl so he's interested in water after his meal to rinse?

Is there sort of a maximum time the enzymes are "good" for after they've been mixed with water? Can you make meals in advance? My guy gets very talkative and a little bit food aggressive when his dish is sitting on the counter waiting so long for the enzymes to marinate.

For the poops - I am glad to hear that a 2 is perfect...I had thought a 2 was leaning towards constipated, so I'm glad we are on track there, but will play with slippery elm a little once we get the mouth sores figured out.

On the watery eyes - I haven't noticed this before, but it's possible it's just allergies....just seems to come on around meal times, so I thought it might possibly be related. I'm not majorly concerned, but will keep an eye on it as we play with the enzymes.

Thanks again! Don't know where we'd be without you all!

[Barb]

Our Kolby had bad mouth sores at the beginning and we did exactly what was suggested. We increased the water and lengthened the time of incubation.....at one point we were up to an hour, but I don't recommend going longer than that. Eventually, we started to move it back to 45 minutes, then 30 minutes. The combination of doing those two things and Kolby getting used to the enzymes worked... the sores finally went away. It took a while though. Some dogs are just sensitive to them.

Some people have used a kitchen timer to show their dog "when" the food is coming. We used to put Kolby's food on top of the refrigerator to get him used to waiting. In fact, one of my favorite pictures of him is in front of the kitchen cabinets right beside the fridg so he could look up and see the bowl. Other pups might be better off if the bowl is hidden...."out of sight, out of mind?"

Hang in there.

Barb