Ace Update

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Bpcooper14
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Location: Lynchburg, VA
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Ace Update

Post by Bpcooper14 » 08 Aug 2018, 10:58

Morning all, just a quick update on Ace.
We started Ace on his insulin Saturday once a day because I didn't get a chance to talk to the vet and ask some of the questions I had referring to the dosage. Everything seemed fine through Monday night. Ate fine, good energy, and I even was able to get a few BG readings at home. Tuesday morning, I go through my normal morning routine (prepare food, let him out of his crate to go potty, etc.) and I noticed he had an accident overnight in his cage. Gave him a bath and fed him. It took some coaxing but finally he finished breakfast and I was off to work (so 2 red flags that something was off). I get a call while I'm at work, he has vomited multiple times at home. I leave my all day inservice, come home and run a BG reading just to see where he was at. It registered as HI on the meter. I run a second one with the same result. I called the vet and took him in to their office. He registered off the charts on their meter as well so by this time I'm blaming myself that I did something wrong, yada yada yada. They kept him all day yesterday and worked to get his levels to come down. I transported him to an ER for overnight observation because no one is in our vets office after 6:00.
According to the doctor at the ER night clinic, she thinks that Ace is not responding to the Vetsulin. After they gave him the Vetsulin, his levels dipped initially and then within 3 hours were back over 600. His levels did come down when they were giving him Humulin-R in smaller doses throughout the day and night at both clinics. He is back at the vet today for more observations. My quick and dirty research leads me to believe he may need to be on a 70/30 or possibly the Humulin-N variant. Again, all of this is speculation until i speak to the vet later today.
Needless to say, the past 36 hours have been pretty stressful and I still have no answers. On a positive note, there were no ketones when he was tested initially and the results for his Cobalamin test came back and were off the chart high so the vet was happy. I've not done any B12 injections, just the wonderlabs B12 oral supplementation.
Hi all, I'm Bill. Ace was diagnosed with EPI on 5/31/18. In January, 2018 he was at the vet for routine check-up and weighed in at 34 lbs. In May after fighting with weeks of poor poo, he weighed 24.6 lbs. On Saturday July 28th, Ace was diagnosed as diabetic.
2 meals per day. He receives 6 units Vetsulin injections twice daily with each meal.
1 cup Victor Multi pro with 1/2 cup ground chicken breast, 1/4 cup sweet potato, 1/4 fat free cottage cheese. 1/2 tsp Pantenex enzymes, incubated 20-30 minutes.

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Miss Maddie Moo
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Re: Ace Update

Post by Miss Maddie Moo » 08 Aug 2018, 13:11

Hello Bill...can i say well done for getting him to the vets quickly...i wish i could offer some knowledge but diabetes isnt something i have dealt with ...i can send you a cyber hug though
.
Maddie DX April 2011 along with low B12 she was feed with a low fibre food below 3% , fat was not restricted ( she wasnt good on pea based foods ) She initially had a course of B12 shots weekly over a period of 6 months and then we used the B12 pills from Chemeyes in the UK . We used Panzym and slowly had to increase the dose as she aged when she was first DX she was 23kg but she gained weight quickly and got back to 33 kg .
Maddie gained her angel wings in Jan 2018 at the age of 10 to a condition unrelated to EPI.
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Bpcooper14
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Location: Lynchburg, VA
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Re: Ace Update

Post by Bpcooper14 » 08 Aug 2018, 13:51

Thanks! It's been an up and down couple of days for sure.
Hi all, I'm Bill. Ace was diagnosed with EPI on 5/31/18. In January, 2018 he was at the vet for routine check-up and weighed in at 34 lbs. In May after fighting with weeks of poor poo, he weighed 24.6 lbs. On Saturday July 28th, Ace was diagnosed as diabetic.
2 meals per day. He receives 6 units Vetsulin injections twice daily with each meal.
1 cup Victor Multi pro with 1/2 cup ground chicken breast, 1/4 cup sweet potato, 1/4 fat free cottage cheese. 1/2 tsp Pantenex enzymes, incubated 20-30 minutes.

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Madelon
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Re: Ace Update

Post by Madelon » 08 Aug 2018, 14:10

Hi Bill. I just contacted Olesia to let her know about Ace - hopefully she'll be able to talk with you soon. Ace sure is one lucky pup to have you!! Sending prayers.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Ace Update

Post by Olesia711 » 08 Aug 2018, 14:25

Bpcooper14 wrote: 08 Aug 2018, 10:58
According to the doctor at the ER night clinic, she thinks that Ace is not responding to the Vetsulin. After they gave him the Vetsulin, his levels dipped initially and then within 3 hours were back over 600. His levels did come down when they were giving him Humulin-R in smaller doses throughout the day and night at both clinics. He is back at the vet today for more observations. My quick and dirty research leads me to believe he may need to be on a 70/30 or possibly the Humulin-N variant. Again, all of this is speculation until i speak to the vet later today.
Needless to say, the past 36 hours have been pretty stressful and I still have no answers. On a positive note, there were no ketones when he was tested initially and the results for his Cobalamin test came back and were off the chart high so the vet was happy. I've not done any B12 injections, just the wonderlabs B12 oral supplementation.
hi Bill... so sorry i am late to responding to you- -i've been offline (personal stuff).... any way go with what the ER vet said....that Ace is not responding to the vetsulin and they were giving hm short acting insulin thru out the day to keep things down.... UGH............. that is going to be a touch one.... the intermediate human version may or may not work...... i had the same issue with Izzy.... she was hitting the 700's on the Ultra touch meter..... it was awful.

I consulted with Dr. Petersen (well known endocrinologist) - -he thought i was a vet because i contacted him thru research gate which i am mbr ofcause of some medical publications i wrote.... so he thought i was a vet...., otherwise he would not have spoken to me directly.... BUT he will consult with your vet and deals with difficult to manage diabetes cases.
https://www.drmarkepeterson.com/
.... it was suggested that Izzy be given intermediate insulin twice daily with meals and a small dose of short (fast) acting insulin added to bring down the high spike..... the problem for me was that this was too expensive regular insulin ($100 mo) +. the short acting insulin was $100 and i didn't even us 1/2 the bottle monthly at which point it had to be thrown away..... so this is where i got serious about if i could tackle this diabetes issue not just from the insulin end... but if i could get better control via the food intake end.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Bpcooper14
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Location: Lynchburg, VA
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State: Virginia

Re: Ace Update

Post by Bpcooper14 » 08 Aug 2018, 15:11

Thank you both for looking out for us and the information. I enjoyed chatting Olesia and will definitely keep you updated with any information, questions, etc. as we are working through the beginning stage of this. :D
Hi all, I'm Bill. Ace was diagnosed with EPI on 5/31/18. In January, 2018 he was at the vet for routine check-up and weighed in at 34 lbs. In May after fighting with weeks of poor poo, he weighed 24.6 lbs. On Saturday July 28th, Ace was diagnosed as diabetic.
2 meals per day. He receives 6 units Vetsulin injections twice daily with each meal.
1 cup Victor Multi pro with 1/2 cup ground chicken breast, 1/4 cup sweet potato, 1/4 fat free cottage cheese. 1/2 tsp Pantenex enzymes, incubated 20-30 minutes.

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
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Re: Ace Update

Post by jilbert57 » 08 Aug 2018, 18:39

Keeping you guys in my thoughts!
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Bpcooper14
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Posts: 70
Location: Lynchburg, VA
Country: United States
State: Virginia

Re: Ace Update

Post by Bpcooper14 » 08 Aug 2018, 20:01

We're home and things have seemingly stabilized. I'm still trying to figure out the trigger but all things considered we're miles better than where we were this time yesterday. Thanks for all of the support.
Hi all, I'm Bill. Ace was diagnosed with EPI on 5/31/18. In January, 2018 he was at the vet for routine check-up and weighed in at 34 lbs. In May after fighting with weeks of poor poo, he weighed 24.6 lbs. On Saturday July 28th, Ace was diagnosed as diabetic.
2 meals per day. He receives 6 units Vetsulin injections twice daily with each meal.
1 cup Victor Multi pro with 1/2 cup ground chicken breast, 1/4 cup sweet potato, 1/4 fat free cottage cheese. 1/2 tsp Pantenex enzymes, incubated 20-30 minutes.

Barb
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Posts: 918
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Ace Update

Post by Barb » 08 Aug 2018, 20:27

Bill, you are handling all this amazingly well. I can't imagine how stressful this has been. I am really glad Ace is home and stable and so glad Olesia has been able to connect your vet with Dr. Peterson. Please keep us updated. We are rooting for you and Ace.

Barb

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Ace Update

Post by Olesia711 » 08 Aug 2018, 20:37

Bill,
Nice chatting with you today..... i sent you an email with good documents to read, some links etc AND i included a sample curve that i did for 3 days in a row... with no insulin or food change and you can see Izzy's blood curves all over the place with no rhyme or reason. My "guess is that this "might" have happened because of the insulin dose only being given once a day and the perfect dose not yet settled within the body.... Diabetes is weird.... it can take a week for things to settle to where you can see the real results.... it can be tricky AND difficult to find the right dose of insulin, type, amount, right food, activity, yadda, yadda.....

BUT.... it sounds like things are calming down now.... best you can do is what you are doing...record everything.... and it is really good that you are going to do the curves yourself too and as you note all the highs and lows you will eventually start to see "patterns".... and that will be most helpful in helping you and your vet figure out what to do :)

If you just need to vent call me or call me if you have an issue... i'll try my best to help out.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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